Renewable Energy Discussion thread

[svenrico]

Originally Posted by daktulos

The problem I have is that I really want a fossil fuel-free future, but there's no way the infrastructure will be in place by the deadlines. The latest was to ban gas boilers globally by 2025 - it would focus the mind, but right now we just don't have any alternatives.

I read an article recently regarding ground/air source heat pumps and the fact they are not cheap so the worst off won't be able to afford to have them installed ! A bit like electric cars I suppose.

[SV650rules]

I think that all these renewables and even the global warming / climate change ( have they come up with another name while I was distracted ? ) is not about CO2 but about taking away power from and our dependence on unstable and not always friendly oil states for our energy supplies.

@seeker it is not cherry picking to point out the massive problem with the unreliability of supply that we get ( or don't get ) from renewables. What it means is that to allow for periods that happen pretty regularly when the wind goes on strike you have to build 10x as many fans on sticks as you need and still have to build 100% reliable backup generation like gas and nuclear. Renewables are best looked upon as 'fuel savers' - but to take advantage of them you need power generation that can be bought on line quickly, which is where gas comes in, but nuclear needs to be given a lot of warning to come up to speed. The problem of having grid back-up for 45GW for a single hour or day is immense, having it for 6 weeks is pie in the sky. And 45GW ( present UK max demand ) is going to double when electric vehicles get popular, and double again when electric homes become the norm. 24KW is quite a small gas boiler these days, but to replace its output with electricity is 100amps, which is the present total present supply to most UK houses. Ground source heatpumps not suitable for many areas and expect a bill for £20K + and although the return from a groundsource pump is about 4KW for every 1KW that just about brings the cost of energy in line with gas ( at the moment electricity is 4 x cost of gas per KWh ) so no cheaper to run GS heatpump ( and with airsource the general payback in UK would be 2.5x per KW due to our generally lower ambient temperature, especially in winter when heat is needed the most it can go down to 1.5x ), so for AS heatpump expect a bill of £10K+ and it will cost more to run than the equivalent gas boiler - so payback period is infinite.

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by SV650rules

I think that all these renewables and even the global warming / climate change is not about CO2 but about taking away power from and our dependence on unstable and not always friendly oil states for our energy supplies.

So, you're saying that renewables are not about CO2? In that case I can see why you're so against renewables, conspiracy theories are easy to swallow. I think it it is totally about saving the climate which is why I think we are heading in the right direction albeit too slowly.

What most people haven't grasped is that the future is not going to be business as usual if we want to stop climatic disasters. Will everyone (can everyone) swap their ICE car for an electric car? I'm afraid not, there isn't enough Lithium and Cobalt so it would need a new technology
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/coba...EV%20batteries.

Calm days in the UK are few, windy days are more common, so yes, I think you're cherry picking data when you keep quoting calm periods. (fun fact: Scotland is the windiest country in Europe https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinio...nefits-1436742)

Here's the UK's average quarterly wind speeds:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ots%20annually.

[Luckypants]

The EV thread was getting derailed by discussions on electricity provision and renewable energy in general. So I created this discussion to keep this large subject area in one place. Let me know if any discussion points from other threads should be included.

[SV650rules]

No wonder China is laughing at the west...

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/05/...-power-source/

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by SV650rules

No wonder China is laughing at the west...

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/05/...-power-source/

You might want to have mentioned that Anthony Watts (!) is the founder of the climate change denial blog "wattsupwiththat.com"

Not one of the more reputable sources of information.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watts_Up_With_That%3F

...just saying.

[svenrico]

Originally Posted by Bibio

at one time the crops were failing in the UK due to over farming until a smart person invented chemical fertiliser.. when there is a will there is a way.

I think the use of chemicals in farming isn't all good either !

[SV650rules]

Originally Posted by Seeker

You might want to have mentioned that Anthony Watts (!) is the founder of the climate change denial blog "wattsupwiththat.com"

Not one of the more reputable sources of information.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watts_Up_With_That%3F

...just saying.

How about CNBC then, a left leaning news source. Wattsup did not make it up, just reported it. As well as building more coal fired stations China is building them for other countries https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.word...und-the-world/ . China also mining the rare earth materials needed to make EV using destructive mining methods and pretty much slave labour with scant elf and safety. China has been taking over African countries to access their raw materials like Cobalt. Some use the UK spending vast sums of money on unreliable renewables to make 0.00001% difference to CO2 while China continues to grow both economically and as a world power to the detriment of the West ( and democracy ).


https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/29/clim...r-for-now.html

I have attached some screendumps as PDF from Gridwatch UK - look at the graphs for wind and solar, - the solar disappears between October and march ( when you need the power the most ) and as for wind, well it disappears all the time - how can you run a country relying on the totally unreliable ?

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by SV650rules

How about CNBC then, a left leaning news source.

actually, NBC is considered centrist:

https://www.allsides.com/news-source/cnbc

...but I get what you're saying. There's nothing we can do to save the planet's climate, we should all give up and let the inevitable happen. We're all doomed.
Tear down the wind turbines and, presumably, burn them, open up the coal mines...
Look up the word "nihilism". (or don't, what's the point? - little nihilistic joke )

Since I've accused you previously of data cherry picking, here's some cherry picking of my own: between 2am and 3am on Friday morning wind turbines were contributing 62.3% of the UK's electricity supply (a new record).
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...wer-generation

but your depressive viewpoint is

[Bibio]

Originally Posted by svenrico

I think the use of chemicals in farming isn't all good either !

dont buy and eat veg from shops then...

there is absolutely nothing wrong with chemical (man made) fertilisers. if you understood how a plant feeds itself you would understand that it dont care how it gets its nutrients. its consuming the exact same thing from the earth its grown in be it organic or chemical. its all to do with how the roots (and leaves) take up different nutrients (mostly metals) depending on need.

without chemical fertilisers most of the planet would die from hunger. its only the ignorant that dos not understand how it works.

nitrogen is nitrogen...

what is a problem is pesticides.