Track day conflict.

Originally Posted by nick_1871

Sounds like the guy on the 250 was reckless and should admit responsiblity.

However, isn't it true that one of the risks of a trackday is that you could come off and trash your pride and joy and even worse do yourself some damage. I don't think it's right that somebody should protest too much when their bike gets trashed and they are injured, no matter who was to blame.

I'm sorry, but that's bllcks

it's one thing to over-cook something & take yourself off

it's quite another thing to be taken out - with resulting personal injury & damage to property running into £1,000's - because some knob-head has blatantly broken the safety rules

Originally Posted by weazelz

I'm sorry, but that's bllcks

it's one thing to over-cook something & take yourself off

it's quite another thing to be taken out - with resulting personal injury & damage to property running into £1,000's - because some knob-head has blatantly broken the safety rules

IMO Blue hit the nail on the head in that post. I think everyone accepts the risk involved and it is highly likely there will be idiots causing incidents on any trackday. So long as there are no real consequences for their actions they will always be there - and we go along knowing this.

Originally Posted by weazelz

I'm sorry, but that's bllcks

it's one thing to over-cook something & take yourself off

it's quite another thing to be taken out - with resulting personal injury & damage to property running into £1,000's - because some knob-head has blatantly broken the safety rules

Right. You can go to the track day to learn, and take things at the pace you are comfortable at. Or you can go to drive on the ragged edge.

But, some guy milling you out of it on a corner, breaking the rules because he thinks he can just make it, is totally out of order.

Originally Posted by weazelz

I'm sorry, but that's bllcks

it's one thing to over-cook something & take yourself off

it's quite another thing to be taken out - with resulting personal injury & damage to property running into £1,000's - because some knob-head has blatantly broken the safety rules

If you do a trackday then you have to be prepared for the fact that your bike may get trashed and you may get injured, no matter how that happens, if it be your fault or not. Sure I would be mightily pi**ed if it happened to me but you have to accept the risks.

It's not bollcks, it's my opinion!

Originally Posted by nick_1871

If you do a trackday then you have to be prepared for the fact that your bike may get trashed and you may get injured, no matter how that happens, if it be your fault or not. Sure I would be mightily pi**ed if it happened to me but you have to accept the risks.

It's not bollcks, it's my opinion!

it is my opinion that your opinion is bllcks

I accept the risks of trackdays because they're generally pretty well run & people mostly behave. I do not race because I do not accept that level of risk (& because I'm not quick enough )

everyone listens to the mandatory safety briefing - the last trackday I went on they were *videoing* the safety briefing as part of their risk assessment. I do not accept that I should put up with the potential damage & injury caused by someone blantantly disregarding the rules

I do not see why rule breaking should be tolerated because "**** happens" or whatever

Originally Posted by weazelz

it is my opinion that your opinion is bllcks

I accept the risks of trackdays because they're generally pretty well run & people mostly behave. I do not race because I do not accept that level of risk (& because I'm not quick enough )

everyone listens to the mandatory safety briefing - the last trackday I went on they were *videoing* the safety briefing as part of their risk assessment. I do not accept that I should put up with the potential damage & injury caused by someone blantantly disregarding the rules

I do not see why rule breaking should be tolerated because "**** happens" or whatever

By doing a trackday then you ARE accepting the risks. It is a risk that somebody will get it wrong and take you out. If you don't accept the risks then you don't do it.

So in fact, your opinion is bllcks

Tell ya what, I'm not going to do any more trackdays. Only joking. This subject is the one I worry about more than any. If I stack a bike, fair enough. But if I took out someone else I would feel the need to compensate them if I could. If it was my fault that is.

My opinion is that as it was on a chequered flag, if they do the no overtaking rule, the 250 geezer should be strung up by the nuts, hung, drawn and quartered. If they don't do the rule I still think he should be strung up by the nuts. I didn't read the whole post as I have attention deficit disorder (Undiagnosed-I get bored very quickly), but I gather the Ducati has forensic evidence that the 250 made contact. "Guilty your Honour". There's one point which they were both going for. One person in front and one behind. The person behind has the responsibility to not hit the fella in front, whether it be directly from behind, or crossing his line so close that it's debatable (refer to evidence that I haven't seen and testimony of Marshall) that he may have hit him. If there was a definition of stuffing it up the inside this would be it IMHO (First acronym I've used-Yay!). I've had it done to me but on a much lower level that caused me to go off onto the grass because I'm a p***y. If they'd hit me at all, let alone the bars???!!! I would've been livid. Beside myself I say. Wild. Not a happy bunny.

I'm gonna have another vodka and hope no-one disagrees with me.



(I'm objective, I think)

I reckon Mr Duke would be happy hearing "I'm sorry but it was my fault". I'm not sure I'm at all prepaired for coming off no matter whos fault it is. I've grassed on tos**rs before on trackdays (Only 1 in 5 days-there were lots more) and I don't care who knows it. Ho got told off and moved onto the next group. I accept there will always be idiots but they need some edumacation. I was toort proper me. I can't afford a bad spill, let alone being taken out.

Trackday's are for the joy of fast riding in a safe environment.

Originally Posted by nick_1871

By doing a trackday then you ARE accepting the risks. It is a risk that somebody will get it wrong and take you out. If you don't accept the risks then you don't do it.

So in fact, your opinion is bllcks

I'm with nick_1871 on this one. I assume they were running in the fast group if all the macho talk about being racers and experience is true and they are as fast as they say they are - they should know the score by now if that was the case!

Even if someone tips you off through stupidity, you can't expect them to foot the bill!!

I think the only (certainly the main)issue here is that it happened on a cooldown lap, not that someone took someone else out!! .. that happens ... be it thought someone getting over keen, mechanical failure, or someone doing something unpredictable.

I guess this is even more poignant for me as I get my buzz from overtaking (generally faster bikes, so I ALWAYS tend to overtake the hard/more risky way), I try to judge it as best I can, but it might go wrong one day.

I tell you what, if/when that day comes, it won't be on a cooldown lap I will feel bad about it if it was truly my mistake, but I'd not expect anyone to expect recompense over it ...

The reason we need these stupidly long briefings these days is because people have an off and start blaming others ... no-win-no-fee style ... if people accepted the risk is their own, the trackday would be a better place ...

If you don't accept the risks to body and bike, stay at home and do some knitting!!

Anyway, that was in response to the more general part of 'if I get taken out then it is unacceptable' ... like I have said a few times now, this incident is inexcusable as it was the cooldown lap and Mr 250 needs to apologise ... the matter dropped and everyone get on their way ...

Blue, let's be fair the Ducati model mentioned would be faster than a 250 GP bike, maybe not a massive amount in it but faster I am sure. However on a track like Cadwell,(which I do not know intimately) I am not sure how much any top end advantage would be negated. In the turns my money would for sure be on the 250.

I think the crux of the matter is that yes one accepts that a track day has it's risks but in the main these are down to the individual rider,particularly when pushing things in to curves. We all know that and curves are the place that mishaps are going to happen in the main.

The 250 rider may well be a very capable individual but to come from nowhere and shoot underneath someone as he leans in has got to be wrong, particularly given the margins of space mentioned.


As others have said that would be a risky move even in a strongly contested club race let alone a track day which in theory is a safer means of a rider exploring his and his bikes capabilities, not looking to burn lap records.