Ethanol E15 in US

[60-80]

Here in the US, Trump just allowed the sale of E15-blended gasoline, meaning 15% of the gasoline at the pump will be ethanol, not gasoline. We have to be very very very careful to NOT USE E15!

Apparently, even the little bit that's left in the hose by the previous user of a pump can be harmful to our engines. So does that mean we have to spill a little from the hose before filling our tanks?

[Seeker]

Got to keep the corn lobby happy since he's upset all the soybean farmers.

Since California gas pumps have vapour traps to reduce VOCs escaping, I don't think that dribbling gasoline is going to win you many friends.

There are products available like this:
https://www.frost.co.uk/ethomix-corr...rotection.html


I chat with a guy that built his own aircraft and he told me that avgas does not contain ethanol and they frequently get car and bikes coming to fill up, so that might be a last resort.

There are a few ethanol free gas station in CA:
https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=CA

We have the "pleasure" of President Trump visiting us this coming week. He's already stepped into the Conservative party leadership battle with praise for Boris Johnson and accused the Duchess of Sussex (Meghan) of being "nasty" which, with his track record, he has plenty of experience, I guess.
No, we won't be keeping him for you, sorry. We have enough problems with our own politicians.

[Bibio]

good its about time. BTW there is a lot of bull branded about by dumb people that blended fuel is bad for your vehicle which is a lot of shieite. welcome to the future.

[Seeker]

Are you saying that you think that E15 is a good thing Bibio?

In the US the push to use more ethanol has mainly come from the corn lobby and a desire for the US to be self sufficient in energy products.
https://e360.yale.edu/features/the_c...or_environment

It was more of a political decision from 2012 than a science based decision.

You use 15-25% more fuel with E15
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ethanol.shtml

I see no advantages and many disadvantages to ethanol in petrol (so I guess I'm a dumb person).

[johnnyrod]

Its green credentials are shaky (much better from sugar cane but US doesn't have the climate) but at least it's one less thing being pumped out of the ground. In Europe there is up to 5% ethanol on 95 RON and up to 10% in 98 RON. People are frankly paranoid about ethanol for some reason, and yes you lose out on mpg unfortunately. It would be ridiculous to suggest you need to try to flush out a pump before filling your bike though.

[Talking Heads]

Originally Posted by 60-80

So does that mean we have to spill a little from the hose before filling our tanks?

No, it means you need to get rid of the orange baboon.

[Talking Heads]

Originally Posted by Seeker

I see no advantages and many disadvantages to ethanol in petrol (so I guess I'm a dumb person).

Vehicles designed to use petrol with a set percentage of ethanol in it will suffer zero adverse issues from using petrol with that set percentage of ethanol in it.
There's only a problem if the amount of ethanol is increased above the design level.
Most current motorcycles and scooters are fine with up to 10%
Raising the limit to 15% may or may not cause problems.

[Talking Heads]

Originally Posted by johnnyrod

People are frankly paranoid about ethanol for some reason, and yes you lose out on mpg unfortunately.

How much of an mpg loss though?
What's the numbers?
Bikes now designed for use with ethanol petrol are typically more economical than their non-ethanol predecessors.
But its not the mpg which is important, its the amount of fossil fuel used.
Ethanol blend reduces this, as does more efficient engine design.

p.s. my wife's 2016 Nissan X-trail SUV routinely averages 55-60mpg and can average over 70mpg.
Given this fact, the 65mpg I get out my SVAL7 is utter ****e.

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by Talking Heads

How much of an mpg loss though?
What's the numbers?

as I linked in post #4, 15-25%
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ethanol.shtml

Originally Posted by Talking Heads

Bikes now designed for use with ethanol petrol are typically more economical than their non-ethanol predecessors.

I would suggest that this is caused by Euro4 (onwards) legislation rather than tuning specifically for ethanol. Certainly attention was paid to internal friction with the new SV eg.

Originally Posted by Talking Heads

my wife's 2016 Nissan X-trail SUV routinely averages 55-60mpg and can average over 70mpg

diesel, petrol? Would you say the engines were designed for similar purposes? I'm sure if the SV were tuned for similar performance as the Nissan, its fuel consumption would improve.
Whilst I'm not doubting your fuel consumption figures, the testers thought that the 45 mpg they achieved with the X-trail (1.6ltr) was commendable, but the 2.0 ltr./4x4 was much thirstier

Maybe your wife is a hypermiler?
https://www.whatcar.com/nissan/x-tra.../buying-owning


The OP was concerned about E15 in the USA not the 5% in use in the UK and, in the US, its usage seems to be a political decision not a scientific decision.
If ethanol was derived from waste plant material I could see the advantage but to grow crops specifically for its manufacture, less so. The ethanol plant in Hull uses animal grade wheat feed for its ethanol production.
https://vivergofuels.com/


Pros and cons:
https://vittana.org/11-advantages-an...ges-of-ethanol

[Craig380]

Originally Posted by Talking Heads

Vehicles designed to use petrol with a set percentage of ethanol in it will suffer zero adverse issues from using petrol with that set percentage of ethanol in it.
There's only a problem if the amount of ethanol is increased above the design level.
Most current motorcycles and scooters are fine with up to 10%
Raising the limit to 15% may or may not cause problems.

Agreed. The problems caused by ethanol can be solved by using the correct materials (e.g. Viton for rubber o-rings, fuel pipes etc) but these can only be retrofitted to older machines after they've had problems.