The Covid19 thread

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by SV650rules

Due to the massive left bias of electoral commission

links for this allegation? I cannot find any.

I don't think putting the commission under Tory control will help its neutrality especially with the current governments' track record on ethical matters and with 14 ministers being funded by Russian oligarchs, they need to be closely watched.
https://www.businessinsider.com/russ...20-7?r=US&IR=T

...but this thread is about covid and now the government's incompetence in handling it. Today a company has been suspended for giving 40000 incorrect PCR test results. The company did not exist a year ago and was awarded a contract without it going to tender (sound familiar? remember Matt Hancock's friend and PPE maker?). The owner has a DNA test company too which is also under investigation for incorrect tests.

[SV650rules]

So what was your plan to get through the last 18 months with no deaths, I would be interested to know. Would you have followed the scientific advice like Conservatives did or made up your own stuff, and taken the consequences when it went wrong.



As for electoral commission ( and it was you that introduced Brexit and vote leave into this thread ) even arch remainer Lord Adonis said Electoral commission was incompetent



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45519676

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by SV650rules

So what was your plan to get through the last 18 months with no deaths

0 deaths not possible. I would have introduced lockdown immediately and controlled incoming travelers (like S Korea and NZ). Germany had a test/trace program long before we did, I would have used that. This government believes in British Exceptionalism which is a world class joke as evidenced by our expensive and flawed Test and Trace (Serco) program, £37,000,000,000 (£37 billion)!!!
If another country has a working system - copy it. PPE corruption was shameful - Tories gave contracts to friends who proved incompetent - there was a PPE company in Hull who couldn't get the government to return calls so sold their PPE stock to Denmark when care homes and hospitals were crying out for supplies.
Don't give mixed messages - look at last Christmas - "there won't be a lockdown", "Boris will save Xmas"... and we had a lockdown (too late again).

Even now, why is mask wearing an option?

The only reason the official inquiry into this debacle is next year is so the results won't come until after the next election.

[Ruffy]

Originally Posted by Seeker

Even now, why is mask wearing an option?

Perhaps because its contribution to managing the problem is debatable?

I'm far from convinced it offers anything more than a very marginal benefit at best and I am more concerned that everyone is being treated like they're a plague carrying killer: "Masks are to protect others" + "people will die if you infect them with Covid" creates a damning message.

You may find it counter-intuitive and hard to relate to but, personally, I find the wholsesale enforcement of masks on the basis of protecting others creates a feeling that things are more hazardous, not more safe.

Other measures (general hygiene, distancing etc.) may be more appropriate and better for overall life experience and human interaction. The uplift I get from seeing a few smiles when out and about dealing with people far outweighs the concern I have that I may get Covid from a mask-free individual.

[svenrico]

Originally Posted by Ruffy

Perhaps because its contribution to managing the problem is debatable?

I'm far from convinced it offers anything more than a very marginal benefit at best and I am more concerned that everyone is being treated like they're a plague carrying killer: "Masks are to protect others" + "people will die if you infect them with Covid" creates a damning message.

You may find it counter-intuitive and hard to relate to but, personally, I find the wholsesale enforcement of masks on the basis of protecting others creates a feeling that things are more hazardous, not more safe.

Other measures (general hygiene, distancing etc.) may be more appropriate and better for overall life experience and human interaction. The uplift I get from seeing a few smiles when out and about dealing with people far outweighs the concern I have that I may get Covid from a mask-free individual.

Surely ,when the virus can be spread in the air, masks as an added precaution can only help protect the wearer and others in enclosed public spaces as well as ,not instead of ,hand washing and social distancing.

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by Seeker

Even now, why is mask wearing an option?

Originally Posted by Ruffy

Perhaps because its contribution to managing the problem is debatable?

I didn't think there was any doubt that masks helped reduce the spread but letting that pass for a second, here's a great example of mixed messaging - taken from government website here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-make-your-own

"You are expected and recommended to continue wearing a face covering in crowded and enclosed spaces where you come into contact with people you don’t usually meet. In particular, where the risk of transmission is likely to be greater."

Summarising - it's not mandatory to wear a mask (but we recommend you do).

If it's a recommendation presumably it has a safety benefit and important but on the other hand we won't make you do it. So if you won't make me do it, it's not important then? Which is it? I still wear a mask when shopping but I'm in the minority now.

I think this partially explains the 40k cases/130 deaths per day - people have dropped their guard and assume the virus has gone away because we've been told everything is getting back to normal. It will never go away but it can be managed, we (the UK government) are not currently managing it well.

[DJ123]

Originally Posted by DJ123

You mean like the UN hiring Matt Hancock as the being appointed as a special envoy to help Africa's recovery from Covid . . . .

Essentially the person responsible for the health of those in the UK who oversaw its failure from the start and has now been voted as the single worse crisis in the UK ever.

Good news (In your best James May voice), they have rescinded the offer due to all the backlash received. So they've only corrected their wrong due to others pushing them to do so . . . .

[embee]

Originally Posted by Seeker

...(Priti Patel) ..... .. Don't forget she was fired by Theresa May for lying (by omission) so she has past record of being unethical.
.....

That's OK, she now works for a boss who has been sacked multiple times for being "flexible" with the truth, by the Times, the Telegraph, and Tory leader Michael Howard (I believe Michael Howard actually sacked him twice, maybe wrong on that one, whatever)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...does-it-matter

That Johnson lies is a matter of record. At the start of his career the Times fired him for making up quotes. In Brussels for the Daily Telegraph he invented stories about the EU. In 2004 Michael Howard sacked him from the shadow cabinet after he lied about an affair. Johnson reportedly told Howard: “It’s my private life. I have the right to lie about my private life.”

It actually seems to be a quality admired by the body political these days. The only "crime" is getting found out, but even that is excused and is seen as vindictive by those that discover and expose the nefarious deeds.

[embee]

Originally Posted by SV650rules

..... Would you have followed the scientific advice like Conservatives did .....

How about this one?

https://assets.publishing.service.go...n_Covid-19.pdf

Advised on 21st Sept 2020, took action 31st October https://www.gov.uk/government/speech...1-october-2020

... and then the debacle over Christmas/New Year ..............

[Ruffy]

Originally Posted by svenrico

Surely ,when the virus can be spread in the air, masks as an added precaution can only help protect the wearer and others in enclosed public spaces as well as ,not instead of ,hand washing and social distancing.

Originally Posted by Seeker

I didn't think there was any doubt that masks helped reduce the spread ...

Fair challenges. I wasn't suggesting there was no benefit, just that it seems to be marginal at best as far as I can tell.

I do recall there were several differing opinions offered last year before masks were mandated. Presumably some of "the science" suggested it wasn't important enough when preparing for the 1st lockdown etc.? Factoring in effects of poor fit, saturation, cleanliness etc., perhaps the effectiveness isn't as good as it appears?

And their contribution is so crucial that they're mandated for controlling other prevalent viruses that are spread through the air and can potentially kill significant numbers, like influenza say ... Oh

Originally Posted by Seeker

... here's a great example of mixed messaging ...

I agree that the messaging and explanation has been shoddy. Especially the current policy of 'no legal requirements but a whole load of recommendations' - that's just a cop out.

Originally Posted by Seeker

It will never go away but it can be managed.

This is the crucial point: It cannot be eradicated (Once it was out, I don't think it ever could) and we have to make choices about how we manage it.

It's all about trade-offs. Some of those choices are based on culture rather than pure science. As I said before, I'd rather see smiles (and other expressions) than masks. I accept that might be a higher risk of infection but the benefits in other areas outweigh it for me. I also accept that others' opinions may vary and that's fine too.