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Old 09-05-18, 10:13 AM   #21
Red Herring
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Default Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)

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I can see automated speed limitation of cars and bikes becoming the norm in the very near future. In all honesty, I'm blown away it's not happened already. Regardless of what people think, coppers aren't revenue agents, they genuinely want people to be safe - and not have to report the death of a loved one due to speeding/careless/drunk driving, etc.
So ask yourself this, genuinely. How many of us would bother riding bikes recreationally if either every time you went over a speed limit you automatically got fined, or all bikes were physically restricted from being able to break speed limits? Nobody goes out and buys a Fireblade or an R1 because they intend sticking to the upper speed limits. My personal moral compass means I'm pretty good at observing limits in built up areas, not because I necessarily think it's dangerous to exceed them in certain places but because I take a certain amount of pride in my riding and discipline is part of the process, but if I were being truthful, and I am, the national speed limit doesn't feature very much in my riding plans.

You're spot on saying coppers aren't revenue agents, but it's not them imposing the vast majority of speeding fines. Most coppers (there are always exceptions) apply a certain amount of common sense and look at time and place, and although over my career I certainly issued my fair share of tickets they were seldom for speeding. It might have said "excess speed" in the box, but that's only because it wasn't big enough for me to fit in "Riding like a ********...."

Speed enforcement is dealing with the symptom, not the cause and it makes pretty much no difference whatsoever to road safety, not in the big picture.
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Old 09-05-18, 10:19 AM   #22
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Default Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)

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<snip> Regardless of what people think, coppers aren't revenue agents, they genuinely want people to be safe - and not have to report the death of a loved one due to speeding/careless/drunk driving, etc.
Unfortunately, most speed partnerships aren't run by coppers these days. They're run by bureaucrats.


The margin of 10%+2mph comes from the ACPO (Association of Chief Police Officers) guidelines on speed enforcement. These recommend that a NIP be issued when this margin is exceeded. Some years back this went through the courts. IIRC the judge said that to promote consistent policing the ACPO guidelines should be followed barring exceptional circumstances. Unfortunately, I can't find the case details.


Edit: Found the 2015 guidelines online:

http://library.college.police.uk/doc...t-Guidance.pdf

Note particularly paragraph 9.7, "These guidelines do not and cannot replace police officer's discretion".

Last edited by keith_d; 09-05-18 at 10:52 AM.
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Old 09-05-18, 10:36 AM   #23
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Default Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)

When Speed Awareness courses were first introduced they were intended to divert prosecutions, however they also had to pay for themselves so the ACPO guidelines were generally ignored because they argued they weren't issuing an NIP...... For a while you got away with telling them to poke it if you were offered a course when caught below the guidelines, but that didn't last long because business managers run them, not ACPO officers.... Just remember who pulls the strings, chief constables are now appointed (and sacked) by a locally elected commissioner who basically makes him (or her) jump through whatever hoop happens to further their political career, and 5h1t only flows one way!
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Old 10-05-18, 05:05 PM   #24
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Default Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)

I also was done for 33.5 in a 30 limit at the bottom of a steep hill in Norwich. Extremely difficult to keep within 30 down the hill in the car. Easier on the bike; love the sv engine braking.
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Old 12-05-18, 11:06 PM   #25
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Default Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)

33.5 is kind of taking the pish... I got caught at 53, and took it on the chin. I was kind of being a bit of a nobber.

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Old 13-05-18, 11:31 AM   #26
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Default Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)

I thought so too. And the speed awareness course was three hours I'll never get back. There was nothing in the course that I wasn't already aware of as I had only taken the bike test 2 years before and had done extensive revision beforehand on top of the 45 years driving a car.
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Old 14-05-18, 09:19 AM   #27
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Default Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)

As ACPO no longer exists as a body, their guidelines are pretty much redundant. There is a hard line on speeding here now, harder even than when Brunstrum was in charge! Stupid low limits are springing up and these are rigorously enforced by the speed vans. I think a couple of mph over the posted limit will become the new benchmark for knicking motorists.
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Old 14-05-18, 11:38 AM   #28
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Default Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)

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As ACPO no longer exists as a body, their guidelines are pretty much redundant. There is a hard line on speeding here now, harder even than when Brunstrum was in charge! Stupid low limits are springing up and these are rigorously enforced by the speed vans. I think a couple of mph over the posted limit will become the new benchmark for knicking motorists.
knicking?

As in pulling your pants down ?

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Old 14-05-18, 12:18 PM   #29
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Default Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)

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knicking?

As in pulling your pants down ?

Obviously a Freudian slip which reflects my views of some speed limits and some enforcement practices.

I had a dig as I know the Police and "Safety" Partnership are hot right now, with Operation Darwen (yes it is spelt that way by the Police) in full swing. I found this response to an FoI request in February 2018 on their website. It states they still follow the 10%+2mph guidelines from ACPO. Worth knowing if you are over this way and the speed wanders up.
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Old 14-05-18, 02:35 PM   #30
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Default Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)

If you ever want to ask a camera partnership a real low baller ask them in what percentage of offences detected where the speed recorded was in excess of 30mph over the posted limit was an offender identified and successfully held accountable. You would be quite shocked as to how low the figure is, which goes a long way to demonstrate how ineffective automatic detection is against the more serious offenders.
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