Joining an advanced riding group?

[Dave20046]

Originally Posted by -Ralph-

LOL, no need to apologise, I thought it was funny that you had just quoted that bit of text but hadn't seen it

Back to the sat at the pub analogy, it could come across as pretty rude. Just you can't see that I'm in fact dealing with things on OWA whilst desperately trying to participate in the pub conversation!

[Dave20046]

Originally Posted by NTECUK

On my way home A120 have given it a Look .
It would have made for an overtake (mini bus).
But bottled it.
Sat behind it doing 40 mph

Ha it's more disappointing sat behind that bus when another rider 'takes' your overtake because of your hesitancy. Happened to me on a recent rideout (France) my gut said take it but my brain held me back as I'd only been riding a day or two after a break of several months, and wasn't 100% my observation was back in alignment I'd always go with the vote against; if you're wrong fair enough you get to ride your bike another day (), but definitely make a decision quick. I'm wary of indecisiveness, especially on motorbikes! That's my thinking anyway.

I did mutter a compliment into my lid ('good man,that's exactly what I would have....doh!') as they sailed past...and then grumbled for the next 30 seconds.

Personally I don't get it, why bother 'risking' an overtake (even if doing a tried and trusted method but open to misinterpretation or mistakes) when you can normally just wait 30 seconds and there will be a safer, straighter opportunity.

What is so important that can't wait a few seconds?

If my senses don't like a possible overtake situation, I'll wait.

I appreciate advanced riding is what the above involves, but it's not what I'd want from it tbh.

[Red Herring]

The whole point of picking up a nearside view and then transferring it to the offside is that it isn't a "blind" overtake. You are only riding into what you have seen, and know, to be clear. The reason many still call it blind (including the person between you and the lorry that you also overtook in the process...) is because they are not looking where you are so they have not seen what you have seen. Advanced riding is all about observation and using what you see to plan, it's not about taking chances with the unknown. Those that don't go unless they are 100% sure are spot on, but instead of just accepting you weren't sure why not ask yourself why?

[darylB]

Originally Posted by specialone

Personally I don't get it, why bother 'risking' an overtake (even if doing a tried and trusted method but open to misinterpretation or mistakes) when you can normally just wait 30 seconds and there will be a safer, straighter opportunity.

What is so important that can't wait a few seconds?

If my senses don't like a possible overtake situation, I'll wait.

I appreciate advanced riding is what the above involves, but it's not what I'd want from it tbh.

Correct on all counts, as a Senior Observer (IAM) I would never advocate those types of risky overtakes and would take to task anyone of my associates who tried and took those. They are dangerous in the extreme and you may get away for so long but ultimately riding like that is only going to end in tears or worse. While we teach people to make progress where possible it is also balanced with showing restraint when needed. better to be a few minutes late in this life than years too early for the next. I would be surprised and dismayed if any observer advocated this sort of riding and would question their ability to teach advanced riding and if any observers in our group o.k'd riding like this I would certainly have strong words with them about their observing skills. Riding fast and making good smoothe progress does not have to involve risks and that is what advanced riding is all about. Good observation is key and putting yourself on the wrong side of the road without being able to see if it's clear is asking for trouble.

Daryl.

Originally Posted by specialone

I appreciate advanced riding is what the above involves, but it's not what I'd want from it tbh.

You take what you want from it mate. That kind of stuff is the extreme end of advanced riding.

Most of it is just making sure you've got your eyes open to the hazards around you and you have the techniques to deal with them. There's some really common accidents, like the video above where the tractor turned right, where it happens because the rider didn't realise that the risk was there. Don't overtake when there's a entrance on the right is a very simple rule, which when followed, totally removes the risk of this accident happening.

I think 99.9% of accidents which were not the riders 'fault' from an insurance, legal, or highway code perspective, could have been avoided by the rider, if the rider had realised he/she was in danger from that type of accident.

[DJ123]

I agree with RH, it's all about the observation and planning

Originally Posted by Red Herring

The whole point of picking up a nearside view and then transferring it to the offside is that it isn't a "blind" overtake. You are only riding into what you have seen, and know, to be clear...but instead of just accepting you weren't sure why not ask yourself why?

Originally Posted by darylB

as a Senior Observer (IAM) I would never advocate those types of risky overtakes and would take to task anyone of my associates who tried and took those. They are dangerous in the extreme...putting yourself on the wrong side of the road without being able to see if it's clear is asking for trouble.

And there is one of the most puzzling things about Advanced riding for the associate, and that's why you have to take from it what you want to take from it. I've had advise from a Police rider on a bikesafe, which an IAM observer totally disagreed with. Red Herring would be teaching the associate how to be 100% sure about what they are riding into, Daryl would advise against it full stop. Both are equally valid views as they are just approaching the same problem from a different angle. Me, or Specialone if he decides to take it up, can only listen to the advice, take the training, learn the technique, then when we are out riding, decide for ourselves if we want to employ it. There is nothing wrong with having an ability, but choosing not to use it.

Havent watched the vids tbh Col, my virgin broadband is shocking atm 30mb my backside.
I get the nearside view thing, but if behind a lorry, is it conceivable for something to be not in view in the nearside view but appear between you shifting your view from nearside to offside but still not visible in the offside view? (if that makes sense)

Basically a momentary blind spot?

Its a question btw, not a statement.

Originally Posted by Red Herring

You are only riding into what you have seen, and know, to be clear...

Playing Devils Advocate here, what if, as a human being, you've made a mistake?