Gripe of the day - What is yours?

[maviczap]

Originally Posted by DJ123

DW i'm not against Cyclists in any shape or form - i ride MTB as i see riding on the road too dangerous in any location, due to the poor driving standards on our roads.
What i do see from some/many cyclists is those who choose to put themselves in danger when a safer option is available. I don't think many of them are aware of how vulnerable they are - hence the lack of bright clothing and safety attributes they choose not to wear/equip themselves with.

I agreed with you on that, but cycle paths are not a safe option until they are properly segregated and maintained. A painted white line does not protect me on the road.

I am acutely aware of how vulnerable I am, and dress accordingly & equip myself.

Those adults that don't have lights & wear dark clothing, only have themselves to blame if riding at night or in bad visibility and get hit. They should be prosecuted or given the option of buying lights and attending a safe riding course instead of prosecution, if caught riding without lights. Its a legal requirement, if not just daft to ride without lights.

For cases involving children, then prosecute the parents

[Chris_SVS]

Why would drivers not be to blame for the things they hit? With the greatest power comes the greatest responsibility, and all that.

Wearing of PPE or a particular type/colour of clothing has no place in being used to decide blame.

[Adam Ef]

You should see how bright I am when I ride to work. Fluoro vest. Flouro helmet, Flouro gloves. 2 front lights. One dymano, one 700 lumens battery. 3 rear lights, all on daylight flash so very bright. Loads of reflectives on clothing. I still get people pull out on me, overtake with people coming the other way towards them and pull in on me, overtake me to turn left across me etc etc...


My 20 mile commute only has about a mile on road with cars. I have someone do something stupid around me just in that one road mile nearly every commute. Even dressed up brighter than a Christmas tree.

[DJ123]

Originally Posted by Chris_SVS

Why would drivers not be to blame for the things they hit? With the greatest power comes the greatest responsibility, and all that.

Wearing of PPE or a particular type/colour of clothing has no place in being used to decide blame.

Similar to a work place H&S situation, the employer does as much as they can to make it safe. But it does not mean you are absolved of all care and responsibility, you still have a duty of care for yourself and others as well as the surroundings.

Taking it back to a road view, it can have an impact on the insurance payouts and where blame (a portion of) can lie.
EG if you do wear a lot of reflective clothing and lights it shows the care of duty you have for your own wellbeing, vs someone who has made no effort at all.
On one of the Police programs a few years a go there was a young Motorist who hit what she thought was a Deer whilst driving at night on an unlit dual carriage way; front LH side of the car & windscreen all smashed up. Turns out it was a Cyclist who had no lights, bright or reflective clothing. She had no chance of seeing him and no charges were made/pressed.

[Chris_SVS]

Originally Posted by DJ123

Similar to a work place H&S situation, the employer does as much as they can to make it safe. But it does not mean you are absolved of all care and responsibility, you still have a duty of care for yourself and others as well as the surroundings.

Taking it back to a road view, it can have an impact on the insurance payouts and where blame (a portion of) can lie.
EG if you do wear a lot of reflective clothing and lights it shows the care of duty you have for your own wellbeing, vs someone who has made no effort at all.
On one of the Police programs a few years a go there was a young Motorist who hit what she thought was a Deer whilst driving at night on an unlit dual carriage way; front LH side of the car & windscreen all smashed up. Turns out it was a Cyclist who had no lights, bright or reflective clothing. She had no chance of seeing him and no charges were made/pressed.

Folk who take a duty of care for their own wellbeing still get hit, see Adams post and mine on the previous page. Hi viz and reflectives aren't a magic pill.

Breaking laws by not having lights post sunset and pre sunrise is a different matter. The remainder of his clothing is still irrelevant, there's nothing to guarantee she wouldn't have hit him if he was dressed any differently. The same as me getting hit in broad daylight when I'd done everything "right", would it have still happened if I was wearing black?

Choosing clothing or lighting in order to stand out is only effective when it's actively looked for and an appropriate response given. but - when you mandate that things drivers hit are all dayglo yellow everything starts to blend in again. Ironically, black would become the stand out colour.

How far do you take it before enough it enough and driving standards are addressed?

[Sir Trev]

Originally Posted by maviczap

Mixing cyclists and pedestrians is just the stupidest idea ever. Yes, if I ever did use them, then I would slow down, but I don't use them because pedestrians are as unpredictable as horses.

That unpredictability of pedestrians quote is spot on. Half of them have blocked out their hearing with music and ignore you (bell or cheery call) and the other half jump a mile and assume you're about to mow them down. And around here they believe the whole shared path is theirs to use and cyclists should bugger off.

The Monkey's degree dissertation looked at this topic and determined fully segregated and dedicated paths were preferred by all and better used. This is fine if properly planned and maintained but apart from places like Milton Keynes they never are!

[DJ123]

Originally Posted by Chris_SVS

Folk who take a duty of care for their own wellbeing still get hit, see Adams post and mine on the previous page. Hi viz and reflectives aren't a magic pill.

Breaking laws by not having lights post sunset and pre sunrise is a different matter. The remainder of his clothing is still irrelevant, there's nothing to guarantee she wouldn't have hit him if he was dressed any differently. The same as me getting hit in broad daylight when I'd done everything "right", would it have still happened if I was wearing black?

Choosing clothing or lighting in order to stand out is only effective when it's actively looked for and an appropriate response given. but - when you mandate that things drivers hit are all dayglo yellow everything starts to blend in again. Ironically, black would become the stand out colour.

How far do you take it before enough it enough and driving standards are addressed?

I didn't say they were a magic pill, but trying to making yourself visible will help. Hence why all vehicles now have DRL's. It's to help you be seen. . . .
There is no magic invention for those people not paying attention or looking far enough ahead. Humans unfortunately are still in control of their vehicles.

Regular tests or assessments would be a way you could try to better the driving standard. But, people would naturally change their ways after a given period time anyway - meaning only a brief period of respite. All being well when most cars start to reach a high level of Autonomy that can legally be used, it should make the roads safer without Humans in charge of their vehicles.

[Chris_SVS]

Originally Posted by DJ123

I didn't say they were a magic pill, but trying to making yourself visible will help. Hence why all vehicles now have DRL's. It's to help you be seen. . . .
There is no magic invention for those people not paying attention or looking far enough ahead. Humans unfortunately are still in control of their vehicles.

Regular tests or assessments would be a way you could try to better the driving standard. But, people would naturally change their ways after a given period time anyway - meaning only a brief period of respite. All being well when most cars start to reach a high level of Autonomy that can legally be used, it should make the roads safer without Humans in charge of their vehicles.

DRLs that lead drivers to think their lights are on/are automatic thus leaving the rear of the car unlit, an awful idea! Seen it numerous times at silly times of the AM when there should be zero question of checking the stalk on the left is twisted forward.

[maviczap]

See what I mean about posts going out of control once cycling gets mentioned.

Time to agree to disagree and move on

It's too tiring and negative

[Chris_SVS]

Nothing out of control here mav