Do loud pipes save lives?

[Chris_SVS]

Advanced test is £ well spent IMO (even Bikesafe!).

[SV650rules]

So this is blaming a rider if they get rear end shunted at a junction, where are you supposed to pull up for a junction, on the pavement ? And what rear observation has to do with it I cannot figure ( presumably you still have to stop for the junction, and the vehicle that hits you may have been way back when you saw them anyway ) , so it means you saw the car / van that shunted you ? Plenty of cars get rear ended at junctions and they are plenty big enough to see... mainly because the vehicle behind is watching the traffic on the island and sometimes assumes the vehicle in front has gone, but they are normally low speed jobs. I don't think pinning an advanced test certificate onto the rear of your bike would stop someone shunting you. It is a fact that cagers are more likely to be distracted or dozing off in their metal box, that is why I rarely filter unless traffic has actually stopped, and how many times do you see a bike rear end another bike ?

Bikers are far more likely to be involved in collisions either when someone pulls out in front of them from a junction or switches lanes unexpectedly or maybe just because they were going way too fast for the conditions and collide with a hedge or a tractor around the bend - loud pipes will not help in those situations. The best thing I ever did was fit extra LED lights to the front of my bike, when I approach junctions I often see vehicles start to edge forward and then the front dips as they slam the brakes on when they see me ( without the extra lights they would probably not have seen me and carried on ) I normally cover brakes anyway when approaching side turnings if I see a vehicle waiting, may help me brake a few milliseconds earlier but hopefully they have seen my brights before they decide to make a dash into my path.

[Adam Ef]

Not always possible but if visibility is good for the road / r'about you're joining then try to slow to time your arrival at the junction so you can flow through it instead of stopping . Not always possible I know and not a catch all solution. Rear observations as you approach can help too to slow slightly earlier before the junction and make sure the driver behind is responding to you slowing. If you're not sure then place yourself to the egde of the lane and be ready to have an escape route planned. Again, not a catch all solution but there's lots of little things you can do to lessen chances of problems. Not to place blame on the rider in any situation but we do need to ride defensively.

[Adam Ef]

...and to keep on track with the theme of the thread, there's alot of people who are happy to spend £600 on new pipes for their bike who would be better off spending it (actually less) on extra training to strengthen their confidence and boost their enjoyment of riding. The couple of hundred £ I spent on my IAM training was probably the best investment I've made as far as anything to do with bikes or riding is concerned.

[SV650rules]

I am very defensive driver whether in a car or on a bike and pretty much always expect others to do the wrong thing, gaily speeding around expecting everyone to do the right thing and for the road ahead to be clear when going around a blind bend is a recipe for disaster whatever vehicle you are in control of. and as for speeding, better Mr Jones late than the late Mr Jones...

[Chris_SVS]

Originally Posted by SV650rules

So this is blaming a rider if they get rear end shunted at a junction, where are you supposed to pull up for a junction, on the pavement ? And what rear observation has to do with it I cannot figure ( presumably you still have to stop for the junction, and the vehicle that hits you may have been way back when you saw them anyway ) , so it means you saw the car / van that shunted you ? Plenty of cars get rear ended at junctions and they are plenty big enough to see... mainly because the vehicle behind is watching the traffic on the island and sometimes assumes the vehicle in front has gone, but they are normally low speed jobs. I don't think pinning an advanced test certificate onto the rear of your bike would stop someone shunting you. It is a fact that cagers are more likely to be distracted or dozing off in their metal box, that is why I rarely filter unless traffic has actually stopped, and how many times do you see a bike rear end another bike ?

Bikers are far more likely to be involved in collisions either when someone pulls out in front of them from a junction or switches lanes unexpectedly or maybe just because they were going way too fast for the conditions and collide with a hedge or a tractor around the bend - loud pipes will not help in those situations. The best thing I ever did was fit extra LED lights to the front of my bike, when I approach junctions I often see vehicles start to edge forward and then the front dips as they slam the brakes on when they see me ( without the extra lights they would probably not have seen me and carried on ) I normally cover brakes anyway when approaching side turnings if I see a vehicle waiting, may help me brake a few milliseconds earlier but hopefully they have seen my brights before they decide to make a dash into my path.

I think you may have missed the point being made. Why would you sit in pos 2 at this junction instead of 1 or 3, the direction you are turning.

[SV650rules]

We were discussing blaming riders for being rear ended, they are hardly to blame if some idiot drives into the rear of their bike at speed, could happen in either 1,2 or 3 position. I will make sure brake light and / or indicator is on while sitting waiting but it is firmly down to following vehicle to take due car and attention. Blaming the rider or driver for getting rear ended is just plain wrong unless they braked very hard at last minute and / or their brake light was not working.

Position 1 and 3 are where all the loose gravel and potential punctures collect, and position 3 may well have oil so I tend to stay away from them and go 1.5 and 2.5.

[Chris_SVS]

Suggesting different positioning isn't blaming the rider. Good enough for IAM/Rospa and the official Police Roadcraft handbook

[daktulos]

If I was turning left, I'd probably be close to position 2, but at angle pointing left - although it would depend on circumstances. Being too far left or right also invites a car to pull along side you. I don't know the junction, but if I'm turning left I want a good view of traffic to the right, so may use positioning to prevent a car blocking the view.

If you're all the way in position 1, you're actually behind that give way sign, too, which reduces the chance of you being spotted.

The car should, of course, stop, but people are idiots, or simply make mistakes.

[Dave20046]

Originally Posted by daktulos

If I was turning left, I'd probably be close to position 2, but at angle pointing left - although it would depend on circumstances. Being too far left or right also invites a car to pull along side you. I don't know the junction, but if I'm turning left I want a good view of traffic to the right, so may use positioning to prevent a car blocking the view.

If you're all the way in position 1, you're actually behind that give way sign, too, which reduces the chance of you being spotted.

The car should, of course, stop, but people are idiots, or simply make mistakes.

Left turn is nearer postion one (the 1 is a bit too far into the gutter but you should be over there). It telegraphs your intention, makes you easier to swerve around if a car/rider behind has lost their brain/brakes and also means no one can undercut you. My instructor drilled this into me, if ever I was too far to the right he'd slip on my inside just after the life saver and honk as I went to move off - scared the crap out of me but demonstrated his point.

The position in relation to the sign is fairly irrelevant, it's a warning that you should be giving way, the road markings are the giveway line.