When to start advanced training?

[Winder]

It's all a learning curve. I couldn't work out why my mate was faster than me and tried to ride too hard without the right info. I then read Keith codes a twist of the wrist 2 which isn't as track orientated as the first book.
From there I completely changed how I sat on the bike, my body positioning when cornering, I got rid of my "panick response" which was always to roll off the throttle. I basically started from scratch and it felt very odd and uncomfortable at first but it has made me a far smoother rider which in turn made me faster.

There is a lot of training you can do for yourself.

[Bibio]

all the training in the world is not going to help if you don't have the ability in the first place.

someone could teach me how to drive an F1 racing car but its not going to make me an Grand Prix racing driver no matter how much training i get.

there has been a few people at the training school here in kirkcaldy that have been told that 'we would advise you don't take up motorcycling'. this was due to the fact that no matter how much training they gave these people they could not get to grips with riding a motorcycle and failed the test numerous times.

[Richie]

I'm going for my I.A.M this year... Hopefully (....... Hang on... I think I can feel a plan coming together...)
using my resettlement from the Army :0)

ohh joy of joys... :0)

Surely it has to be as soon as you're sensible enough to feel the need.

For the record I've done two Bikesafes in London and the second was a complete and utter waste of time (Bikesafe down here soesn't seem to be anywhere near as comprehensive as it is in other places). The copper was waiting a few more weeks for retirement and spent most of his time telling other road users off. I don't think I'll go back there.

Originally Posted by Bibio

there has been a few people at the training school here in kirkcaldy that have been told that 'we would advise you don't take up motorcycling'

John McDonald & Co by any chance? I forget what his training school is called. They used to be on Mitchelston Industrial Estate.

What Bibio says is very true, and I have seen a rider that had just passed an IAM test, who didn't have the confidence to exceed 40mph or execute a single overtake, then on another occasion came off the bike trembling and crying after being buzzed by another rider (who was an idiot to be fair, but he buzzed everybody and they didn't come off the bike crying), so that kind of honesty doesn't always happen. That rider is quite competent now and indeed passed IAM observers at one point, but IMO should not have passed the first test at that point in time.

ROSPA say Gold is the highest civilian riding qualification, so I can't imagine that it's an easy test, or one that every rider is capable of getting through. If I can't pass ROSPA bronze I'll hang up my helmet (I've been told on my latest bikesafe that if the last hour of riding had been my test I would have passed), but if I'm struggling to get silver or gold, and I've failed the test 2 or 3 times, then that's the time to accept your limitations and give up. I hope I'll never get to the stage where somebody has to tell me that I'm not capable.

I have also had a poor bikesafe experience during which I got no feedback at all except, "yes, your riding is fine, but what's the speed limit and what speed did you get up to on that overtake?".

I had overtaken a car doing about 57 in a 60 limit, we were doing about 65 (knew my speedo was overreading anyway) so I caught him, and knowing the next couple of miles was bendy with DWL, I did a textbook overtake perhaps hitting an indicated 80 mph, then pulled in and dropped back to 65mph. I wasn't going to sit alongside the car on the wrong side of the road, at the speed limit and take a couple of hundred yards to pass (and if I had the copper would have needed to contravene the DWL in order to follow me, but as it was he followed me through comfortably).

Quality of training absolutely seems to depend upon the individual that is training and testing you.

Col, hang you helmet if you can't get to silver stage after a few trys? We not all gonna be super standard ever, IMO that's putting too much pressure on yourself.
There will always be a wide range of abilities, same as driving, we can't all be police class/grade 1 drivers.

Motorcycling doesn't come natural to me and I don't think I'll ever be a fully accomplished rider, it's not a bad thing IMO, just learn your limitations and ride accordingly.

I've thought many times I'd like to teach at some point but it could never be the racing side of things as I'll never be to a good enough standard but I'd like to think I could get to a standard at some point where I could help new riders, who knows it may be a pipe dream.

No, hang my helmet if I can't get to Bronze.

If I can't get to Silver, I'll accept that I'm a ROSPA Bronze level rider and get on with it, and do a Bronze level retest every 3 years. Or can't get Gold, accept that I'm Silver.

As KG says it's not about the badge, it's about doing everything you can to reach your potential and make your riding as safe as you possibly can.

Originally Posted by -Ralph-

A devils advocate question, and it is a question, not a statement or an argument.

If somebody doesn't want, or feel they need to do extra training they won't, but don't you find that a lot of riders have this mentality as a bit of a delusion? i.e. "the accident wasn't my fault", "I had no chance", "there was nothing else I could have done".

It is probably the time for these riders to get some further training, but they don't feel that their current training isn't sufficient, so how do you get them to come join a group? Is the incident related trigger, the only way under which you get people joining?

It isn't the only way, as we just get people turning up out of the blue because they have decided independently to seek further training, but when we talk to people at dealer open days and those sort of events we do try and help them deconstruct an incident they have had recently. Doing this can break down the barriers that you've highlighted, by showing them that there may have been an alternative approach which they could have taken if they had picked up on an observational cue. Occasionally, there are cases where we haven't been able to suggest an alternative course of action, but even then you can see that the seed has been planted.

[Stuuk1]

Originally Posted by Bluefish

I'd say about a year after passing the test would be appropriate, if one wanted further training, once you had had a bit of time on the road.

I would disagree with this.

Depending on usage, a year is a long time to pick up habits. Having just done an IAM day course, I wish I had done it years ago.

I've got some bad habits, mainly to do with positioning.

Had I started advanced training as soon as I passed, the habits I would have learned would have all been good ones!

Personally, I didn't like being followed/observed and it made me do things which I never do, these included looking down at the road in front of me... I never do that and it was strange! However, I did learn a lot and shall definitely be signing up to train and pass my test.


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