Big Brother has arrived... - SV650.org

23-12-05, 09:27 AM

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/tra...icle334686.ece

And there was me thinking that they were just talking about doing this at some point in the future.

"By next March a central database installed alongside the Police National Computer in Hendon, north London, will store the details of 35 million number-plate "reads" per day. These will include time, date and precise location, with camera sites monitored by global positioning satellites."

"More than 50 local authorities have signed agreements to allow the police to convert thousands of existing traffic cameras so they can read number plates automatically. The data will then be transmitted to Hendon via a secure police communications network."

23-12-05, 09:40 AM

As if this'll actually catch any real criminals.

Expect an increase in cloning of plates and consequently, more harrasment for innocent motorists and more wasted police time.

Still, at 35,000,000 transactions a day, there should be a few database adminstrator jobs going begging. I'd best get my name down.

Viney · 23-12-05, 09:56 AM

With this in mind then, car crime should become non existant! To be honest, i havent a problem with this. I reckon that this has been done for years, its only now that they are admiting to it. It does have good points! Hit and runs should be able to be eliminated or cleared up quickly, it could be used to PROVE your innocence, and will also highlight how many clonned number plates there are out there!

23-12-05, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viney

With this in mind then, car crime should become non existant! To be honest, i havent a problem with this. I reckon that this has been done for years, its only now that they are admiting to it. It does have good points! Hit and runs should be able to be eliminated or cleared up quickly, it could be used to PROVE your innocence, and will also highlight how many clonned number plates there are out there!

Assuming that the computer is always right and never wrong. If the computer says that you were there, then it is up to you to prove that you weren't, and to prove that the computer is wrong. Image recognition is extremely error prone at best. Bear in mind that you will not have access to the computer, or any of the log files, which may show that the computer had trouble deciphering "your" plate. This could see a lot of people getting their collars felt, and a lot of wasted police time

23-12-05, 02:48 PM

Look at it this way, if there's any abuse of personal information it will reinforce the arguments against the national ID card scheme.

Viney · 23-12-05, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iprideaux

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viney

With this in mind then, car crime should become non existant! To be honest, i havent a problem with this. I reckon that this has been done for years, its only now that they are admiting to it. It does have good points! Hit and runs should be able to be eliminated or cleared up quickly, it could be used to PROVE your innocence, and will also highlight how many clonned number plates there are out there!

Assuming that the computer is always right and never wrong. If the computer says that you were there, then it is up to you to prove that you weren't, and to prove that the computer is wrong. Image recognition is extremely error prone at best. Bear in mind that you will not have access to the computer, or any of the log files, which may show that the computer had trouble deciphering "your" plate. This could see a lot of people getting their collars felt, and a lot of wasted police time

Who cares. at the end of the day we cant stop it, so we might as well just go along with it!

mac608 · 23-12-05, 04:10 PM

Where I work we've had an ANPR system installed for some years. The big problem is when we take all filters off you would be surprised how many hits we get for uninsured, no MOT, disqualified etc, so much so that we tend to keep the filters on which means we only look for specifc cars which Mr Plod are VERY interested in. And it gets results.
Its always a hoot when some low life is about to get in his car to be greeted by Mr Plod with , hello, hello, would you like to come down to the station with me.
We also recover a fair number of stolen cars, and the numbty driving it is quite often the person who stole it in the first place
The downside is yes, its not 100% accurate reading the number plate but it is still, to my mind, pretty accurate.
But what does annoy me is Mr Plod (presently) doesn't appear to want to follow up the unisured, no MOTs etc, their excuse, manpower, bigger crime blah, blah.

Biker Biggles · 23-12-05, 07:06 PM

This stuff might be OK if there were cast iron safeguards built into it's use.
But there are none.It will end up being used as a cash cow to milk ordinary people just like speed scameras or parking ticket /bus lane fines.
It will also be used to supress those who are critical of the policies of those in power.
I believe they used it to persue the killers of the police woman,and if it could be contained to very serious crimes then there could be great benefits,but it never happens that way.We need some very powerful legislation to control this and I am 100% certain we won't get it.

glade · 24-12-05, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biker Biggles

This stuff might be OK if there were cast iron safeguards built into it's use.
But there are none.It will end up being used as a cash cow to milk ordinary people just like speed scameras or parking ticket /bus lane fines.
It will also be used to supress those who are critical of the policies of those in power.
I believe they used it to persue the killers of the police woman,and if it could be contained to very serious crimes then there could be great benefits,but it never happens that way.We need some very powerful legislation to control this and I am 100% certain we won't get it.

yep exactly right, if they use it for the right thing, instead of the EASY statistics/revenue.... but that will never happen.

we need to be more like the french and do more protesting. they love it.

24-12-05, 01:20 PM

This (simplistically) is how our country works:

1. We elect MPs to Parliament.
2. MPs make laws on our behalf.
3. We employ a police force to ensure those laws are not broken, and to catch miscreants.

If we break those laws (ie we have no MOT, no insurance, are speeding, drunk etc etc) it doesn't matter much HOW we are caught. Laws are not OPTIONAL. It's irrelevant whether it's a camera, cctv, the Old Bill or a snooping neighbour that catches us, so don't go squeaking "Foul Play". We are guilty and that's it - so don't break the law!

What DOES matter is when the implementation of the law or the methods of detection are so flawed that the innocent are found guilty, and when the laws themselves are nonsensical or unenforceable. In each of these cases, your redress is through the political system: bombard your MP with letters; support campaigners (eg, I think MCN are doing a great job on identifying the inaccuracy of cameras, and in this they are way ahead of the national press); use the Freedom of Information Act to identify abuse; form pressure groups. Just engage the system!

"For evil to flourish, it is only necessary for good men to do nothing."
(Edmund Burke)

23-12-05, 09:27 AM	#1
SVeeedy Gonzales Guest Posts: n/a	Big Brother has arrived... http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/tra...icle334686.ece And there was me thinking that they were just talking about doing this at some point in the future. "By next March a central database installed alongside the Police National Computer in Hendon, north London, will store the details of 35 million number-plate "reads" per day. These will include time, date and precise location, with camera sites monitored by global positioning satellites." "More than 50 local authorities have signed agreements to allow the police to convert thousands of existing traffic cameras so they can read number plates automatically. The data will then be transmitted to Hendon via a secure police communications network."

23-12-05, 07:06 PM	#8
Biker Biggles Member Mega Poster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Barnet Herts Posts: 5,068	This stuff might be OK if there were cast iron safeguards built into it's use. But there are none.It will end up being used as a cash cow to milk ordinary people just like speed scameras or parking ticket /bus lane fines. It will also be used to supress those who are critical of the policies of those in power. I believe they used it to persue the killers of the police woman,and if it could be contained to very serious crimes then there could be great benefits,but it never happens that way.We need some very powerful legislation to control this and I am 100% certain we won't get it. __________________ On a clear day we stand there and look further than the ordinary eye can see.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Yay, my new toy has arrived	JACE	Photos	10	13-06-07 09:18 PM
Yay!!! They've arrived!!!	Scoobs	Idle Banter	40	30-05-07 11:15 AM
the NIP arrived	timwilky	Idle Banter	14	13-02-07 06:17 PM
New toy has arrived... not an SV though	suicidesam	Photos	18	13-02-07 03:00 PM
My new has toy arrived.....	Jelster	Photos	23	07-08-06 03:10 PM

23-12-05, 09:40 AM	#2
Ceri JC Guest Posts: n/a	As if this'll actually catch any real criminals. Expect an increase in cloning of plates and consequently, more harrasment for innocent motorists and more wasted police time. Still, at 35,000,000 transactions a day, there should be a few database adminstrator jobs going begging. I'd best get my name down.

23-12-05, 09:56 AM	#3
Viney Member Mega Poster Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: In the shadows to the left Posts: 7,700	With this in mind then, car crime should become non existant! To be honest, i havent a problem with this. I reckon that this has been done for years, its only now that they are admiting to it. It does have good points! Hit and runs should be able to be eliminated or cleared up quickly, it could be used to PROVE your innocence, and will also highlight how many clonned number plates there are out there!

23-12-05, 02:48 PM	#5
Nick762 Guest Posts: n/a	Look at it this way, if there's any abuse of personal information it will reinforce the arguments against the national ID card scheme.

23-12-05, 04:10 PM	#7
mac608 Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 203	Where I work we've had an ANPR system installed for some years. The big problem is when we take all filters off you would be surprised how many hits we get for uninsured, no MOT, disqualified etc, so much so that we tend to keep the filters on which means we only look for specifc cars which Mr Plod are VERY interested in. And it gets results. Its always a hoot when some low life is about to get in his car to be greeted by Mr Plod with , hello, hello, would you like to come down to the station with me. We also recover a fair number of stolen cars, and the numbty driving it is quite often the person who stole it in the first place The downside is yes, its not 100% accurate reading the number plate but it is still, to my mind, pretty accurate. But what does annoy me is Mr Plod (presently) doesn't appear to want to follow up the unisured, no MOTs etc, their excuse, manpower, bigger crime blah, blah.

24-12-05, 01:20 PM	#10
Anonymous Guest Posts: n/a	This (simplistically) is how our country works: 1. We elect MPs to Parliament. 2. MPs make laws on our behalf. 3. We employ a police force to ensure those laws are not broken, and to catch miscreants. If we break those laws (ie we have no MOT, no insurance, are speeding, drunk etc etc) it doesn't matter much HOW we are caught. Laws are not OPTIONAL. It's irrelevant whether it's a camera, cctv, the Old Bill or a snooping neighbour that catches us, so don't go squeaking "Foul Play". We are guilty and that's it - so don't break the law! What DOES matter is when the implementation of the law or the methods of detection are so flawed that the innocent are found guilty, and when the laws themselves are nonsensical or unenforceable. In each of these cases, your redress is through the political system: bombard your MP with letters; support campaigners (eg, I think MCN are doing a great job on identifying the inaccuracy of cameras, and in this they are way ahead of the national press); use the Freedom of Information Act to identify abuse; form pressure groups. Just engage the system! "For evil to flourish, it is only necessary for good men to do nothing." (Edmund Burke)