Car audio boffins please

[_Stretchie_]

Right guys, I call upon the mighty org for advice.

I am planning to upgrade my car stereo as it only has 2 pairs of 4” speakers (I now it’s not the size, it’s what you do with it). I have changed the standard speakers for two nicer pairs of Alpine 4” and it sounds clearer but it’s not enough. Not enough coverage of the audio spectrum ( I made that up, did it sound good as what I meant is it doesn’t cover low, medium and high frequencies or in english 'not enough oomph')

I will NOT have ugly subs in boxes and no neon lights anywhere, I need the same amount of space as I already have so the plan is to have speakers in the trim panels, I will have to make holes for the non 4” speakers and to hide two amps somewhere out of sight. One amp for the front, one amp for the rear, I have come to this set up of two amps as I have just acquired a 720w 2 channel amp for free.. (Happy days)

The front and back will be the same with:

1 pair Tweeter
1 pair 4” driver
1 pair 5.25”/6.5” (depending what will fit in the space behind the panels)

I will use the RCA outputs to take the signals (Front and rear) to the appropriate amp. After that is that’s where I need your help.

As I will have 2 channels coming from the amp (Channel 1: Left +, Left -, Channel 2: Right +, Right -) and these will be effectively powering six speakers covering different hz ranges how would you suggest I do this?

I can just wire the speakers in series (diagram 1), but then I was thinking, wouldn’t it be better of I could get the correct frequencies going to the particular speakers..

So I started looking on t’internet and found out about crossovers and filters. What I THINK I want is a 12v 1 in to crossover (or rather 1 for each channel). I can take the out put from the amp. One channel (Left +, left -) put that into the crossover, then take three outputs (high, med, low) from the crossover to the correct speakers ta daaa.. (Diagram 2)

Diagram 1


Diagram 2


I need you guys to give me the skinny on this, and also to say, “Yes Stretchie, that is what you want to do, in fact, here are the exact crossovers you want and they are £5 each, INFACT I have four lying around doing nowt, what's your address I will send them to you”

Cheers the mighty Org.. (Not to be confused with the mighty Quinn, he was an eskimo child!)

[Viney]

1st off, what car?

Like all things, you want better sound, you need bigger speakers. Ok, so you dont want a sub, thats fine, but have you looked at the Kenwood under seat sub? Its not brilliant but will give some bottom end and make for a more rounded sound.

13cm speakers are not going to be much better than the 10cm (sorry i do metric now ) also if you put the bigger speakers at the back you will screw up your sound stage! I.e it will sound like its coming from the back and not the front!

What brand is the amp? Just because it says 720w on the fornt, it more than likely isnt. I would sell that, and buy a decent 4 channel amp. Easier to locate, and wire.

Do not wire the speaker in series as you WILL blow the tweeters. You can get a simple 'bass blocker' cap from the likes of caraudio.com, or again sell your forn speakers and buy a 4" component kit or bigger if you dont mind cutting some holes. Or, put the current front speakers in the rear and put the bigger speakers up front. The larger the better to be honest. If you can get a set of 16.5cm speakers up there, this will be better.

The biggest thing to look at when buying speakers is thier sesitivity rating. They can go as low as 87db and up to over 100db. This is how sesitive the speakers to the same volume, remembering that DB is a liner scale, therfore a speaker at 90db will be twice as loud as a speaker at 87db for the same wattage. So, try to match both pairs of speakers or make sure your fornts are more sensitive than the rear.

I have spent A LOT of money on car hifi over the years. My curent system is no where near what i used to have, but the money run out! I surrently have Earthquake front component system, Eathquake rear 2 ways and a pair of cheap subs (My old kenwoods gave up the ghost after 10 years of abuse when i had no money) and 2 modified Philips amps run with an Altec Lansing bass controller.

When yopu wire the amps, make sure you use suitible cable that runs direct from the battery with a fuse no more than 12" from the battery and one no more than 12" from the amp(s) The ground can run from somewhere like a seatbealt mounting. Also use decent siganl cable. No need to spend huge ammounts, but it will pay in the end. Just make sure its shielded in some way, and try to run the power and siganl cables seperatly. Say the signal down the transmission tunnel and the power down one side of the car. Maplins do good power cable and is what my car has used for years.

Heres a simple system (Not sure of you budget) (the speakers i have listed are italian and sound fantastic (Fitted a set in my mates car))
Front
http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/comp...ctf5tl0bitr167
or if they can fit
http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/hert...ctf5tl0bitr167

Rear
What you have in the front or

http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/hert...ctf5tl0bitr167

Or again, if you can

http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/hert...ctf5tl0bitr167

Amp
http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/kick...ctf5tl0bitr167

For a 'secret sub' have a look at these
http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/alpi...ctf5tl0bitr167

http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/pion...ctf5tl0bitr167

http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/kenw...ctf5tl0bitr167

[_Stretchie_]

Cheers Viney
You're a dude. I know about the power cable, going to get a nice big one to hit both the amps. I know about the power ratings and I'm planning to match them up.

I have a 98 Discovery. I don't want any tubthumping bass. Did that when I was younger. Just a good sound.

Don't want to site anything under the seat as this will be going off road and you never know, If I get stuck in a river and have to open the door, I'm knackered.

Front of the car:
In the front doors the 4" sit where the door handle is. I wanted to site the slightly bigger ones lower down and the tweeters in the A frame.

Rear of the car:
The rear door of the disco has 2x 6.5" 'subs'. In the rear pillars are the 4" speakers, I was going to site the tweeters above them and in the area already provided get 2x 6.5" bass drivers.

Not sure how much your wanting to spend on this project but if you ask me (as class champion in IASCA in 2000 lol) your going to get a better result from a simple system done well with good components than a fancy pants one compromised by installation problems.

Firstly most modern head-units will provide adequate power for most peoples needs so needing any external amp is going to add expense and installation problems you may not need. The only time you need big power from an external amp is to run sub units due to the increased power required.

for a simple setup get a good quality head-unit run a set of componant speakers up front from its internal amp (pref ones with a separate crossover) and run a sensible pair of ovals in the back. 6x9s have a bit of an image problem but in reality have a good range and decent kick for the price.

Budget about £600 quid all in.

To improve this signifigantly you need to condider sound deadning doors and rear panels. Its a pain and its messy but there is no point spending any more money on a system in a '98 car with 10 years worth of rattles before doing it.

If you want to move into the next level try to get a amp that you can run the two front channels from and a small sub, run the rears from the headunits amp for rear fill. You can get a 8"sub and put it in a very small custom box in place of a armrest or buried in the rear quarter panel but again the sound deadning is vital. Like foundations in a house without a solid base the speakers will not work properly.

Think £1000 all in for this.

anyone who says you NEED to spend big money to get good sound is wrong. Sensible money will give massive improvements over standard.

[_Stretchie_]

Cheers fella. I'm not in if it costs big bucks, I'm a tightfisted northerner.

I don't like ovals. 6x9's are not for me, everyone I've ever known have them, myself included have always had one of them fail. If it was just me then I'd put it down to numptyness but too much of a coincidence for my liking.

Cheers fella, I won't be doing until after christmas (unless I 'find' some money somewhere.) Am also going to be installing a second battery and second alternator to charge it rather than a split system. I have the room and a spare place for the belt to run it from. This is going to be a vehicle for all occasions. Good for camping, off roading, dog carrying, bike bits carrying and maybe even driving to work

I'm thinking then thatmaybe just two pairs of components (with crossover included) and maybe two 6" bass drivers in the rear door might suffice. Like I said, I don't want anything competition standard just a better set up to combat the truck like sound that is a diesel Land Rover

don't need to spend big bucks to get something pretty good.

Wouldn't worry too much about a second set of components in the rear, one good set of tweeters will normally suffice in a car unless its running big bass setups.

ovals are a bit out of fashion at the moment but its hard to get better bass for the money and space they take up.

would be worth spending a bit of time sound deadening the doors first, makes a massive difference in a rattly diesel!

[_Stretchie_]

Actually yeah, what's this deadening stuff about, you mentioned it earlier Viney. I presume it works both ways, would it make it quieter on the inside too.

I wouldn't mind a head unit with built in bluetooth to the phone so I can use it as a handsfree kit but at the miunte there is no point as all the person on the other end would hear is noise

[Viney]

I didnt mention sound deadening. To be honest, i have limited success with the stuff. Apprently it does work and there are a lot of brands on the market. Check out Dynamat for one brand. Unless you do a whole door, i dont think its worth doing and the stuff isnt cheap.

As for Bluetooth, you can get kits that 'plug' into your hifi, but will not work with amped set ups.

[_Stretchie_]

Ok cool. Sorry, your avatars look similar when you are staring at the middle of the screen.. Yeah, I think that may be more hassle than it's worth, blox to it. Already have a semi decent head unit, can upgrade to the one I want later, just two pairs component speakers andlook into 6.5" bass drivers or some easy way to fit to 8" subs in to the space in the rear door.. Cheers guys

[Viney]

If you whack 8"'s into the tailgate, then i would suggest some sound proofing, also mount them on some MDF baffles or if you can get hold of some, Birch ply(apprently the deadest wood you can get)