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Old 03-10-18, 05:43 PM   #11
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Default Re: Central Heating Boilers:

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Originally Posted by Bibio View Post
hard and soft water is not dictated by the acidity of it but both often go together. soft water has less salts than hard water.

for domestic tap water to corrode copper piping the acidity would have to be constantly under a pH of 2 which you would notice straight away if you drink it.

living in a hard water area is bad as it has a higher content of salts which build up in pipework etc.etc. soft water areas have no such problem.


Not true.

The salts in hard water act as a buffer and raise the pH without them the pH drops below 7.
Copper will suffer pitting at even pH6 which then creates corrosive sulphates. (These cause the blue lining you see inside pipework when you cut it)


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Old 03-10-18, 06:50 PM   #12
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Default Re: Central Heating Boilers:

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Not true.

The salts in hard water act as a buffer and raise the pH without them the pH drops below 7.
Copper will suffer pitting at even pH6 which then creates corrosive sulphates. (These cause the blue lining you see inside pipework when you cut it)


I have a smile of the day now. A degree in Chemistry, teacher training in science, and 20 years in a career which involves water chemistry and at last I use my knowledge!!!
glad to be of service

riddle me this then... i have soft water but the pH is 8-8.5
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Old 03-10-18, 08:20 PM   #13
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Default Re: Central Heating Boilers:

Why do you say it's soft?
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Old 03-10-18, 08:39 PM   #14
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Default Re: Central Heating Boilers:

Glenfarg is my water supply which is moderately soft hardness level. besides that if the dissolved solids were correcting the pH to 8-8.5 then i would not get much of a lather when using soap like other hard water areas, but like almost everywhere else in Scotland its well bubbly lather.. there are very very few hard water areas in Scotland.

i know the reason why, but i'll let you work it out. i'll give you a hint though.. this has only happened within the past 10 years which before that it was pretty much bang on a pH of 7

i have never to date heard of anybody having rotted/pinned copper pipes in Scotland due to the water pH.
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Old 04-10-18, 05:40 AM   #15
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Default Re: Central Heating Boilers:

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I'm on my second Vaillant boiler. To be fair I did move house.
Both properties had a prehistoric boiler when we moved in. The house we are in now had one that was part of the worktop in the kitchen. WTF. It was practically condemned on our survey.


Anyhow I digress.
First house we were there nearly 5 years. No issues whatsoever.
Second house been there just over 3 years. No issues whatsoever.


Had one of these fitted in both. Vaillant ecoTEC Plus 835 Combi Boiler.
Another Vaillant owner here, had ours for nearly 17 years now. Early on we had problems, but after the ignition board was changed, touch wood it's been trouble free.

My only gripe is that it only supplies enough hot water for one shower, if some turns a tap on or flushes a look, then the shower goes cold. Not a big problem, just irritating.

My mum also had one, so plumbers must think they are ok?

I did prefer the system I had in my previous house, which was a normal boiler and a mini tank, which held enough hot water to fill a bath. If I have a new boiler fitted, I might go back to having a mini tank and have it heated by a boiler or solar panels.
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Old 04-10-18, 07:42 AM   #16
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Default Re: Central Heating Boilers:

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Originally Posted by Bibio View Post
Glenfarg is my water supply which is moderately soft hardness level. besides that if the dissolved solids were correcting the pH to 8-8.5 then i would not get much of a lather when using soap like other hard water areas, but like almost everywhere else in Scotland its well bubbly lather.. there are very very few hard water areas in Scotland.

i know the reason why, but i'll let you work it out. i'll give you a hint though.. this has only happened within the past 10 years which before that it was pretty much bang on a pH of 7

i have never to date heard of anybody having rotted/pinned copper pipes in Scotland due to the water pH.
Here is a engineering bulletin from Scottish NHS - you only have to go as far as section 1 to see warnings of effect of soft water in Scottish Hospitals on copper piping, they recommend stainless or plastic piping is used where possible. More bad news from the paper is that epidemiological studies have found higher incidence of cardio vascular disease is higher in soft water areas than hard (this is further down in the paper).

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...fVjHpf_by8_q-l
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Old 04-10-18, 09:02 AM   #17
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Default Re: Central Heating Boilers:

I grew up in Northamptonshire and moved to Norfolk, both hard water areas. The first shower I took after moving to Edinburgh I used the same amount of shampoo as in Norfolk and then spent ages trying to get the foam out of my hair. The water came from a reservoir in the Pentland hills.
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Old 04-10-18, 10:35 AM   #18
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Default Re: Central Heating Boilers:

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Originally Posted by SV650rules View Post
Here is a engineering bulletin from Scottish NHS - you only have to go as far as section 1 to see warnings of effect of soft water in Scottish Hospitals on copper piping, they recommend stainless or plastic piping is used where possible. More bad news from the paper is that epidemiological studies have found higher incidence of cardio vascular disease is higher in soft water areas than hard (this is further down in the paper).

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...fVjHpf_by8_q-l
" SHTN 2 addressed the problems experienced by the NHS in Scotland in
consequence of the corrosion of copper pipework systems. Despite extensive
research, the absolute cause of the corrosion has never been precisely
determined
, but enough was understood to conclude that copper pipework in
Domestic Hot and Cold Water (DHCW) services in hospitals and other healthcare
premises in many areas of Scotland (and elsewhere), with soft water, and / or
where high levels of sediment were found, had a high propensity to failure. "

says it all really.

its all just someone getting paid huge amounts to talk pishz and justify their job and get work through the door for their mates.

my father was a plumber/heating engineer all his working life in Edinburgh and Fife. if there was pitting on copper piping due to soft water then he would have mentioned it. i know a fair few people in the trades and not one of them has ever mentioned rotting copper piping.
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Old 04-10-18, 11:34 AM   #19
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Default Re: Central Heating Boilers:

Worcester Bosch use a lot of Italian made parts.
Every part I've ever had replaced in a Worcester boiler (one gas, two oil) was made in Italy.
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Old 04-10-18, 11:42 AM   #20
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Default Re: Central Heating Boilers:

yup, pretty much all your white goods are made in Italy or Spain.. hello massive price hike after brexit....
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