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Old 04-10-18, 12:20 PM   #21
Ruffy
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Default Re: Central Heating Boilers:

Well, based on my previous personal experience, if I were in the market I'd probably be looking at Worcester Bosch first. However, some of the others' experience listed here makes me pause for thought and I would look more widely.


Also, I would be looking at some sort of way to tie in solar capablity too (probably traditional boiler and a heat store water tank, rather than combi), but that may not be practical for the London flat that the OP is considering.
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Old 05-10-18, 05:46 PM   #22
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Default Re: Central Heating Boilers:

Which? Magazine reviewed boilers this month.

If you pm me your address or email I'll send you the article.

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Old 05-10-18, 07:01 PM   #23
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Default Re: Central Heating Boilers:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bibio View Post
Glenfarg is my water supply which is moderately soft hardness level. besides that if the dissolved solids were correcting the pH to 8-8.5 then i would not get much of a lather when using soap like other hard water areas, but like almost everywhere else in Scotland its well bubbly lather.. there are very very few hard water areas in Scotland.

i know the reason why, but i'll let you work it out. i'll give you a hint though.. this has only happened within the past 10 years which before that it was pretty much bang on a pH of 7

i have never to date heard of anybody having rotted/pinned copper pipes in Scotland due to the water pH.


Scottish Water have to correct the pH in a lot of areas. Legislation requires supplies to be between pH 6.5 - 9.5 in part to prevent corrosion, in part because below that range it tastes. (It also tastes above the range)

So long as the supply is regulated within the range the expected lifespan of copper pipework is around 45 years. Typically people won't re pipe a whole house unless they are remodeling but they are more likely to fix a leaking joint or replace a single length of pipe at a time.


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Old 06-10-18, 07:48 AM   #24
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Default Re: Central Heating Boilers:

Water that is below 6.5 will leech out metals from piping mainly copper, lead , iron and dissolve it in the water, in really low ph areas this can cause 'blue water' if the dissolved metal is copper actually colouring the water and it will taste awful. As I said earlier my brother worked as a designer for a water treatment equipment manufacturer and they hated soft water as it corroded their equipment and they had to balance it before putting it into public network. It is not for nothing that distilled or de-ionised water is called 'the universal solvent'. The jury is still out if water softeners in your house cause corrosion, the manufacturers obviously say not, but in any case they do add sodium to the water which is not really ideal for drinking.
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Old 06-10-18, 11:25 AM   #25
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Default Re: Central Heating Boilers:

it all doesn't help the OP about boilers but its an interesting subject.. well to me anyhoo.

can we agree that distilled water or indeed pure H2O has a pH of 7?

can we agree that any water no matter its pH or "minerals/salts" content can be adjusted using either phosphoric acid to lower or potassium hydroxide to raise the pH?
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Old 06-10-18, 01:53 PM   #26
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Default Re: Central Heating Boilers:

To return to topic. I like Worcester Bosch.
Reliable, easy to get hold of parts of needed and well understood by engineers.

I had to get a new boiler a few years ago to replace a 30yr+ one. Went for a Greenstar and went from 60% efficient to 91%
Budget for it to last 10 years, after that consider it borrowed time. Get boiler insurance from year 2 but make sure that includes annual service and inspection - costs the same as just the service but your covered, usually for controls and leaks too.

I love the comments about old ones are best. Same used to be said of cars, but I don't see many people choosing to drive a Cortina.
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Old 06-10-18, 01:54 PM   #27
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Default Re: Central Heating Boilers:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seeker View Post
Nothing to do with pH but I lived in San Antonio TX for a year, it gets its water from the Edwards Aquifer which is a vast underground limestone cave system https://www.edwardsaquifer.net/

In the US water hardness is defined in grains (of Calcium carbonate) per gallon. Very hard water has a range greater than 10.57, in San Antonio it varied between 15-20 gpg; a water softener was essential. We ended up buying an ion exchange softener (salt exchange) which swaps the Ca for Na. It worked very well but when we returned to CA we discovered they were banned (another $3000 blown). CA sells partially treated water for landscape irrigation and they could not deal with vast quantities of salt water that the softener dumped.
If you do have a water softener fitted it is recommended that it is fitted close to the incoming stopcock and 'after the drinking water tap' WTF - does that mean that you can only have one tap in the house that you can drink out of, or have separate piped drinking taps, clearly labelled. Softened water is not good for drinking because of the problem with sodium in the water (that has been exchanged for calcium) - calcium is much better for you. Water softeners are fitted mainly for washing machines, to save on detergent, so why not fit it next to the washing machine.

I would rather descale the kettle, washing machine and shower a few times a year than have my household plumbing quietly corroding away from the inside.
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Old 06-10-18, 02:27 PM   #28
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Default Re: Central Heating Boilers:

If you run the boiler temp too high on condensing boilers you lose quite a lot of the extra efficiency over 'a dumb cast iron boiler' because the heat exchanger is too hot to condense the flue gasses and extract the escaping heat before it goes out of the flue and into the wide blue yonder. Experts reckon boiler temp needs to be kept as low as possible for best condensing ( even below 40 deg C for room heating only), but you need to heat water in you combi or indirect hot water tank to at least 60degC. This paper reckons that the hot water side of a combi boiler does not usually get into condensing mode, so take 20% off that 91% that maker quoted in their blurb. You should see a definite white plume of water vapour coming out of flue, if you cannot see the plume as soon as the gases leaves your boiler is probably not condensing. We run our system boiler at boiler at 70 deg C flow temp ( we have 14 radiators so return temp is probably below 50 deg C, but I will check), I would run it cooler if it was only feeding radiators but it is also heating our hot water tank as well, and if your hot water storage is at too low a temperature it is a perfect breeding ground for bugs.

One fairly modern innovation for central heating is a thermostat mounted ouside the house which senses the out side temperature and adjusts the boiler flow temp (higher temp on colder days) - but the trouble is if the boiler temp gets too high we do not get the recovery of latent heat of evaporation from moisture in flue gases. Also if you have a lot of radiators with TRV on them to shut off flow at a certain room temp, as more radiators get shut off the temperature of return water to boiler rises and may take it out of condensing mode (even if it was in it to start with).


http://www.yougen.co.uk/blog-entry/1...ensing'3F/

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...-of-money.html

http://www.complianceforlandlords.co...gionella-risk/


Condensate from condensing boilers is extremely acidic and corrosive. this Australian article seems to suggest that draining it back into sewage / grey water system without raising the ph to at least 5 may be made illegal in Aus soon. Maybe this is why condensing boilers do not last long, they rot away from the inside.. I had to replace the condensate sump (aluminium, which is normally pretty good with acid) on our Vaillant, as I said it is like triggers broom. Found out something from the Australian article, just like the decibel scale the ph scale is a log scale, a ph of 6 is 10x more acidic than a ph of 7, so a ph of 2 ( condensate from natural gas boiler) is only one step up from battery acid,

https://www.automaticheating.com.au/...nsing-boilers/
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Old 06-10-18, 08:06 PM   #29
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Default Re: Central Heating Boilers:

We are having a new combi boiler and new rads put in next week. We have just bought our first house (built 1961) and it has a hot water tank in the cupboard and a standard boiler in the corner of the kitchen. The rads are mismatched and don't have valves so will be changed and a couple relocated. The boiler according to the quote is a Baxi. So fingers crossed it is a good one. Might as well get it done now before getting stuck in with decorating.
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