SV650.org - SV650 & Gladius 650 Forum



SV Talk, Tuning & Tweaking Discussion and chat on all topics and technical stuff related to the SV650 and SV1000
Need Help: Try Searching before posting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-08-20, 08:03 AM   #21
SV650rules
Member
Mega Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Shropshire UK
Posts: 1,357
Default Re: Gen1 battery woes again!

The only difference between the pre-2004 5 wire RR and the later 7 wire RR seems to be that in the later ones Suzuki doubled up on the number of contacts in the 12V DC plug - obviously to spread the electrical load across a larger contact area and stop the 'melting RR plugs' when the contacts became a bit corroded or loose. The two pairs of positive and negative wires on the 7 pin setup go to exactly the same place in the bikes electrics and the 'direct to battery' loom from Electrex ( supplied with RR851 ) just takes them all straight to battery. So you could still plug in the stator and if you choose to use the supplied the direct to battery loom still plug in the loom without soldering anything - depends if you want to pay £90 for the much better 'series' RR... and your bikes RR plugs would be compatible with any 2004 ---> RR for plugs, just depends if they kept the same physical RR size as pre-2004 ( you can check that as the pictures shown with the RR851 have one that shows the physical heatsink and mounting slots dimensions )

https://www.electrexworld.co.uk/acat...Rectifier.html

The standard MOSFET shunt regulator for your bike is RR85 - same price as the series RR851 which is a much better RR than even the mosfet shunt one ( the series type runs cooler and easier on stator coils ). the later RR is 30mm longer ( 110mm ) and the mounting slots are min 67 and max 91mm, the standard one pre-2004 is 80mm long and slots are min 53 max 66mm, maybe you can dremel a bit out of slot ( couple of mm ) to fit longer one if space allows. The width and height of both RR the same at 80mm and 30mm

https://www.electrexworld.co.uk/cgi-...2ehtml#SID=439

JUST RECEIVED MY RR851 IN POST ( ORDERED 6TH AUG ) AND THE 'STRAIGHT TO BATTERY' LEAD IS NOT INCLUDED IN THE PARCEL, DESPITE BEING SHOWN IN PHOTO WITH THE RR. IT REALLY IS AN 'OPTION' THEN.
__________________
2016 SV650 AL7

Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear - Mark Twain

Last edited by SV650rules; 08-08-20 at 01:34 PM.
SV650rules is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-20, 05:01 PM   #22
gadget
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 397
Default Re: Gen1 battery woes again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV650rules View Post
The only difference between the pre-2004 5 wire RR and the later 7 wire RR seems to be that in the later ones Suzuki doubled up on the number of contacts in the 12V DC plug - obviously to spread the electrical load across a larger contact area and stop the 'melting RR plugs' when the contacts became a bit corroded or loose. The two pairs of positive and negative wires on the 7 pin setup go to exactly the same place in the bikes electrics and the 'direct to battery' loom from Electrex ( supplied with RR851 ) just takes them all straight to battery. So you could still plug in the stator and if you choose to use the supplied the direct to battery loom still plug in the loom without soldering anything - depends if you want to pay £90 for the much better 'series' RR... and your bikes RR plugs would be compatible with any 2004 ---> RR for plugs, just depends if they kept the same physical RR size as pre-2004 ( you can check that as the pictures shown with the RR851 have one that shows the physical heatsink and mounting slots dimensions )

https://www.electrexworld.co.uk/acat...Rectifier.html

The standard MOSFET shunt regulator for your bike is RR85 - same price as the series RR851 which is a much better RR than even the mosfet shunt one ( the series type runs cooler and easier on stator coils ). the later RR is 30mm longer ( 110mm ) and the mounting slots are min 67 and max 91mm, the standard one pre-2004 is 80mm long and slots are min 53 max 66mm, maybe you can dremel a bit out of slot ( couple of mm ) to fit longer one if space allows. The width and height of both RR the same at 80mm and 30mm

https://www.electrexworld.co.uk/cgi-...2ehtml#SID=439

JUST RECEIVED MY RR851 IN POST ( ORDERED 6TH AUG ) AND THE 'STRAIGHT TO BATTERY' LEAD IS NOT INCLUDED IN THE PARCEL, DESPITE BEING SHOWN IN PHOTO WITH THE RR. IT REALLY IS AN 'OPTION' THEN.
Ì
I have the standard Electrex mosfet RR85 already and this is / was the cause of all my electrical problems, don't think I'll be buying another Electrex branded RR anytime soon tbh.
Instead I think I'll go 'belt n braces' and buy one of those FH102 or FH008, they both seem to be the best option for a good performing and reliable set up.
According to Decosse and a few other peeps on here, this is THE set up for an SV so I'll take his/their advice and do the mod.
Just can't be doing with the agro of continuously messing with the battery charger and not knowing if I'm going to get ti where I'm going.
Btw ... does anyone know if either of the two regs mentioned above will actually fit inside the side panel where original was? Hopefully without too much hassle.
gadget is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-20, 05:22 PM   #23
SV650rules
Member
Mega Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Shropshire UK
Posts: 1,357
Default Re: Gen1 battery woes again!

The main problem with RR is that motorbike manufacture do not mount them in the airflow properly, especially on faired bikes - and RR lives or dies by airflow... If yours is tucked away behind a panel near to cylinder head or radiator it will always be overheating. Many Honda owners on CBR600 and VFR series have had to mount a 12volt computer fan on the heatsink to keep their RR alive. The big thing about the newer 'series' RR is that they are much more efficient and run cooler, as well as giving the stator coils a much easier life. Before I fit new electrex RR851 to my L7 I will do some tests with voltage regulation at different revs and heatsink temperature while bike is stationary - the bad thing about RR on L7 is that it is near front cylinder and close to radiator, almost touching the back of the cooling fan grill. I may even try to reposition RR, although I would need some longer cables ( may resort to soldering iron and heatshrink ). The heatsink on the RR851 has bigger fins than the original, and the heatsink is not painted ( any paint will act as a thermal insulator- even if black ).
__________________
2016 SV650 AL7

Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear - Mark Twain

Last edited by SV650rules; 08-08-20 at 06:09 PM.
SV650rules is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-20, 06:10 PM   #24
gadget
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 397
Default Re: Gen1 battery woes again!

Exactly, I've been going over alternative places to mount the new re, on the gen1 sv there seems very few places to mount it that doesn't bring up some kind of compromise. Ie ... risk of debris hitting it, rain, or to near hot spots. Having said that ... if it's one of those new fangled 'series' rr's then it should have an easier time mounted in the stock place, especially if the 'direct to battery' mod is also done.
gadget is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-20, 06:31 PM   #25
Seeker
Member
Mega Poster
 
Seeker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: NE Lincs
Posts: 1,065
Default Re: Gen1 battery woes again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV650rules View Post
the bad thing about RR on L7 is that it is near front cylinder and close to radiator, almost touching the back of the cooling fan grill
...on the other hand, the L7 has been out for 4 years and I've yet to hear of a reported failure here or on the US site. My AL7 is 4 years old, on 29k miles and original battery.
__________________
2016 SV650AL7
2023 GSX-8S
Seeker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-20, 07:01 PM   #26
R1ffR4ff
Member
Mega Poster
 
R1ffR4ff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: JAMOADR(1999 Curvy) 36,000 miles
Posts: 1,427
Default Re: Gen1 battery woes again!

The OEM factory fitted R/R on my 99 Curvy lasted 18 years under it's stock position,rear fairing location so there's obviously enough air-flow and lack of heat. It was killed by age I suspect and possibly a little by lack of inline connector servicing.

The cheap £14.95 Shindegen copy I fiited in 2018 is now 2 years old in the same position but under the other side of the rear fairing and nominal charging. I originally fitted a small PC fan on top of it but snagged one of the wires when I was doing my yearly Rear electrics servicing and couldn't be arsed to buy another one.
As these later Mosfet R/Rs run a lot cooler and usually also contain a thermal cut-out that the older ones don't have I wasn't concerned.

I recently serviced and got my Pal's 2002 SV650s ready for an M.O.T which it sailed through as it was running R.A.F but fitted a 12v Voltmeter on it for him as I noticed the Charging with lights off was hitting 15V. Running nominal 13.8v/14.2v Approx with the lights on.

I've advised him to keep an eye on the Charging voltages and get a new R/R ready.


We found these as an Alternative,

https://www.motorcyclepartswarehouse...xoCEegQAvD_BwE

https://www.motorcyclepartswarehouse...50-savage.html

Although they don't say it in so many words I suspect they are MOSFET by the smaller heat-sink fins.


We don't know the company but he's willing to,"Guinea-Pig" one if and when the time comes.
__________________
"Stultus est sicut stultus facit"

Last edited by R1ffR4ff; 08-08-20 at 07:07 PM.
R1ffR4ff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-20, 09:10 AM   #27
SV650rules
Member
Mega Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Shropshire UK
Posts: 1,357
Default Re: Gen1 battery woes again!

Here is a useful video for testing RR... but you need a decent meter ( I used to have FLUKE meters at work, but forgot to pinch one when I left - they are expensive but well worth it ).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTjumDgixkQ

Seems the first one he tests is a normal RR ( SCR shunt ), the second one a Mosfet ( shunt ) and the Polaris one is a 'series' type ( whenever I see the Polaris name it seems to be referring to a reasonably priced upgrade to a series type regulator ) the Polaris does indeed have mosfets in series with the diode pack rather than in parallel with the regulator - so rather than loading up the stator all the time and 'shunting' ( wasting ) the excess current, the series type reduce or increase the amount of power they draw from the stator and give it a much easier life.
__________________
2016 SV650 AL7

Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear - Mark Twain

Last edited by SV650rules; 09-08-20 at 09:12 AM.
SV650rules is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-20, 06:56 PM   #28
gadget
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 397
Default Re: Gen1 battery woes again!

Well, I've decided not to go with a direct replacement plug n play RR as there's just too many crap items out there, even the Electrex unit I bought was rubbish tbh, just got really unlucky with ebay with that one!! So ...as I'm probably going to have to mod some wiring for the new RR, ie ... 12g min from RR to stator and 12g min to do the 'direct to battery' mod and think about repositioning the new RR for increased airflow etc, what do peeps think about the FH022AA rr?
Seen a few around for pretty decent cost, they're apparently fitted to the 2018 Yamaha MT10 and newer BMW's anyone recommend these as an upgrade for the sv?
gadget is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-20, 08:59 PM   #29
SV650rules
Member
Mega Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Shropshire UK
Posts: 1,357
Default Re: Gen1 battery woes again!

There is an ocean of fake parts on internet - the usual suspects are good at copying the look of brand name products, sometimes down to serial numbers, but not the quality - the rule is if the price is too good to be true, then it usually is.... unless you buy from reputable places or direct from manufacturer you cannot be sure of anything. I am going to do some tests on L7 with original Suzuki shunt RR vs the genuine Electrex series regulator, such as revs vs voltage to battery and heatsink temperature.
__________________
2016 SV650 AL7

Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear - Mark Twain

Last edited by SV650rules; 09-08-20 at 09:03 PM.
SV650rules is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-20, 09:39 PM   #30
gadget
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 397
Default Re: Gen1 battery woes again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV650rules View Post
There is an ocean of fake parts on internet - the usual suspects are good at copying the look of brand name products, sometimes down to serial numbers, but not the quality - the rule is if the price is too good to be true, then it usually is.... unless you buy from reputable places or direct from manufacturer you cannot be sure of anything. I am going to do some tests on L7 with original Suzuki shunt RR vs the genuine Electrex series regulator, such as revs vs voltage to battery and heatsink temperature.
Yeah i know exactly what you mean, I bought my Electrex unit used from ebay but got ripped off with a dud unit. Having said that there are several of the used FH units from the likes of Yamaha Honda etc and all seem to be around the £40 mark, might take a punt again, if it turns out to be a good unit then it's worth doing the whole wire upgrade and relocate thing.
gadget is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gen1 Undertray Strangwooduk SV Talk, Tuning & Tweaking 12 08-10-17 08:56 AM
an Australian gen1 giantclam Photos 18 29-08-10 10:41 PM
K3 Battery Woes? Rammsteinkid SV Talk, Tuning & Tweaking 7 02-12-09 04:14 PM
Question about gen1 to gen2 transition Zokambaa SV Talk, Tuning & Tweaking 18 20-11-08 12:19 PM
gen 2 fender on a gen1 bike? hitmanip SV Talk, Tuning & Tweaking 7 26-03-07 07:37 AM


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® - Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.