Advanced riding – braking

Reading a ‘roadcraft’ type book at the weekend, in the ADVANCED RIDING section it said that one should only ever brake in a straight line, brakes should only be on/applied mid-corner if there is a sudden need to …

This is an ADVANCED technique?

Originally Posted by Blue_SV650S

This is an ADVANCED technique?

I've done the RoSPA and it was definitely not recommended.
Possible, like anything, but not recommended.

I don't like braking mid corner. Was at a track day there a week ago, and saw some fine examples in the middle of the gravel, why you shouldn't really be doing that.

If you can do it progressively, ie apply the brakes lightly, load the front wheel, then apply more brake power, then it is less unstabling for the bike, but since you are moving the weight to the small front tyre, which is over on it's side, you can see how thin a line you are on.

Brake and gear change in a straight line, bank the bike over and be on positive throttle to maintain weight transfer to the big rear tyre.

"in like a cat out like a lion"

Its easy get ya observation sorted and you dont need to brake probably be a bit quicker if you did...O well i ride how i like to ride and my riding i dont like to use the brakes too much.

I think I see where you're coming from. Either you're questioning why it's in the advanced section as it really should be in the basic section, or you're thinking that the advanced section should have techniques for braking mid corner?

I suppose whether you're advanced or novice you're always going to want to aim to brake in a straight line where possible, but as you gain experience you begin to get a feel for how much braking can be applied up to the apex and the effect braking whilst banked over has on the bike and the geometry. Trouble is that all that can only really be taught by experience, you can throw some general pointers in there like "really try not to", and "if you have to, make it soft and smooth, perhaps try back a bit more than front" etc. But experience will teach you braking limits.

Suppose the other thing to mention is that these books tend not to be aimed at racing, where you and I tend to come from (whether that be on track, or occasionally ahem, on the Queen's highway), the aim in racing is to get round the corner as fast as possible, and if you think that by late braking up to the apex you'll stand a 90% chance of keeping it rubber side down you'll probably take those odds. Books geared to rapid road progression however are always going to aim for a 99.9% (or higher) chance of making it round a corner.

IAM told me off for braking into apexes (sp?)

I think it is an advanced technique though, whether advanced means more advanced than average or more advanced than novice is debateable though

Well i got a bollocking on saturday from my IAM instructor for braking mid corner. Especially as it was the front brake and the wheel was travelling over a squished rabbit at the time (almost lost it). He was right though, corner braking is silly. If you're going to fast just chuck the bike in anyway it will probably make it

Originally Posted by Blue_SV650S

Reading a ‘roadcraft’ type book at the weekend, in the ADVANCED RIDING section it said that one should only ever brake in a straight line, brakes should only be on/applied mid-corner if there is a sudden need to …

This is an ADVANCED technique?

I think that they are saying that braking mid corner etc is not a good idea, no matter how proficient you are, so use only in an emergency situation.

Certainly sudden braking whilst actually in the corner is a bad idea, but to say flatly that ALL braking must be done in a straight line is odd. Maybe they're just safer to assume that people have no feel or clue about grip/basic tyre physics until they know for sure that they do.

Yep, I think it's definitely a case of taking things either from a race or a road position. A pro race rider is arguably infinitely better at controlling their machine than an IAM instructor. Yet the IAM instructor is more likely to get home in one piece. Who's the better rider? The race rider may say that braking into the corner is fine, it gets me through the corner quicker and that way I win races. The IAM instructor will say you shouldn't brake into a corner as you're using up traction that could otherwise be used for turning and you leave yourself no safety margin for rabbit/gravel based emergencies. Who's right?

The answer to both question is "both" and "neither".

PS. Note I used the phrase "pro race rider". I've no problem agreeing with the principle that a lot of IAM instructors would whup most weekend warriors on a track day, but put them against any professional racer and they'd surely be lapped shortly after me

Yeah they are doing different things. The IAM guy generally has to use his bike to get places and therefore cant go flat out into corners on the brakes then fly round on the perfect line whereas the racer can and they don't care if they bin it they will just get another one!!