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Old 28-11-21, 05:59 PM   #431
Bibio
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Default Re: The Covid19 thread

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The reason we have had successful vaccines for some viruses like smallpox is that they do not mutate, so it is possible to almost wipe them out. It is a competitive advantage to a virus to become more transmissible and less deadly, it maximizes the amount of your virus DNA that gets spread around. Ebola also lives in bats ( a surprising amount of diseases come from bats ) and has mutated to jump the species gap, the Africans have a habit of eating bat meat - and that is the reason Ebola spread to humans... Chinese also eat and live cheek by jowl with some stranger and exotic creatures - which is probably why a lot of diseases originate from there.
humans have been eating whatever they can catch since,, well forever. different regions eat different things and have been eating these things for ever. if it were the fault of a species causing all these viruses etc.etc they would have surfaced a long long time ago. its easy to tell the public that "it came from bats" than to tell them in came out of a lab at which point blame would start.
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Old 28-11-21, 06:51 PM   #432
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Default Re: The Covid19 thread

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The Germans said ' in Britain you clap the NHS, in Germany we give them more funding'... ( but the NHS in its present form is a money pit ).


I was shocked that only 10% of NHS employees are medical - see heading 4 and read below..


https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures....rkforce/latest

.

Just to put that in proper perspective------10% of NHS staff are medical means 10% are doctors. The term "medical" means doctor and does not include "clinical" staff ie nurses physios ambulance radiographers pharmacists etc etc etc. Beware of "statistics" on the net eh? 81% of all statistics are just made up
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Old 28-11-21, 10:03 PM   #433
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Default Re: The Covid19 thread

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Just to put that in proper perspective------10% of NHS staff are medical means 10% are doctors. The term "medical" means doctor and does not include "clinical" staff ie nurses physios ambulance radiographers pharmacists etc etc etc. Beware of "statistics" on the net eh? 81% of all statistics are just made up
And be especially aware of statistics on your national government website, as these were!!!
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Last edited by Ruffy; 28-11-21 at 10:04 PM. Reason: punctuation
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Old 28-11-21, 10:26 PM   #434
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Default Re: The Covid19 thread

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You're mixing two discussions. The first was that it was suggested that virus' get less deadly as they mutate and my point was that they don't necessarily and I listed some still deadly virus'.

If HIV was an airborne virus we would be in deep trouble though. HIV patients are given 2 different retrovirals because HIV can out maneuver one and even then with the virus classed as "undetectable" (viral load <50) it hides somewhere in the body - suspected to be at the brain stem.

Your other comment was about how you thought the government was introducing authoritarian controls and seemed to imply that losing 150+ people a day through covid was acceptable because people die of other things anyway. I do agree that the Tories are overstepping democratic rules but not in this particular area.
We have had almost 150,000 covid deaths some of which could have been prevented if lockdowns/quarantines were introduced sooner. Profit versus health? As I get older the latter becomes more important to me, when I was younger not so much, maybe.

We have had a couple of recent months of optional mask/social distancing rules which was irresponsible (imho) when we know that they reduce the risk of catching covid. Our inspiring leader demonstrated that mask wearing was not needed with his actions yet virus case rates remain stubbornly high. Those rules should not have been relaxed - they were not onerous restrictions and, even now, the rules are half baked.

This government seems to play fast and loose with safety rules. None of the incoming South African passengers (into UK) have been tested for omicron yet the Dutch found 10% of their incoming passengers from SA were carrying the new variant. Let's hope the new strain is weak.
Fair challenge. My thoughts are not fully formed, or necessarily fixed, on any of this. I often 'think out loud' as I grapple with problems and I admit I am susceptible to confusion as I do.

The contrasting thought about the deadly viruses was have they mutated to any great extent (or at least at the pace being seen/expected with covid)? How to gauge 'steady state'? I don't know.

The deaths issue is intriguing and sensitive of course. I do not like the fact that so many people are dying of covid, I am simply left wondering how many of those are/were truly preventable now that it's out there. What's acceptable is of course a partly medical, partly moral, partly political issue as you rightly point out. I wonder if the covid episode has exposed many more people to the macro-level reality of how many people actually die on a daily basis and much of the debate is because lots of people may be struggling to comprehend it and compare with our micro-level existences. (I include myself in that - again I profess no particular expertise or righteousness.)

The mask thing is another contentious point. It could be argued that cases staying stubbornly high is evidence that masks do not really work (en-masse). It may feel like its a minor imposition but I feel we lose a lot socially by covering our faces. Again, I do not know what to conclude (though, as it happens, I have been trained in a some mask wearing activities over the years in my professional life so I like to think I decently appreciate the practical issues related to them.)

I agree that the 'half-baked' guidance/solution we have now, full of inconsistencies or anomalies, is making things harder to deal with for most. I am certainly just sick of it and probably mentally exhausted to the point of subconsciously thinking "to hell with it, it will be what it will be".
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Old 29-11-21, 12:15 AM   #435
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Default Re: The Covid19 thread

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Originally Posted by SV650rules View Post
The Germans said ' in Britain you clap the NHS, in Germany we give them more funding'... ( but the NHS in its present form is a money pit ).
I was shocked that only 10% of NHS employees are medical - see heading 4 and read below..
https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures....rkforce/latest

.
But medical staff only includes doctors. It doesn't include clinical staff like nurses, midwives, health visitors and ambulance staff and probably a lot of other staff that most people would think of as medical.
ps I now see that Biker Biggles has already made this point.

Last edited by svenrico; 29-11-21 at 12:20 AM.
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Old 29-11-21, 12:25 AM   #436
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Default Re: The Covid19 thread

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(I am aware of and declare my prejudice: I'm sorry if this sounds harsh or selfish to some, it's just the way I feel, but I'm really struggling with being compelled to put my own life essentially in a parking bay to generally protect over 70s and those at heightened risk of dying anyway. it's hard for me to act just to preserve a hope of extending 'senior years' by sacrificing or limiting the potential for joy in the present.)
Are you suggesting anybody over 70 doesn't deserve protecting ?!
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Old 29-11-21, 12:45 PM   #437
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Default Re: The Covid19 thread

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(I am aware of and declare my prejudice: I'm sorry if this sounds harsh or selfish to some, it's just the way I feel, but I'm really struggling with being compelled to put my own life essentially in a parking bay to generally protect over 70s and those at heightened risk of dying anyway. Why? Because I lost both my parents 'early': father at age 58, heart-related, mother at 59, cancer - both some years ago now before I reached age 30. It messed me up far more than I realised at the time and I still struggle today as a result of missng their counsel over the years since and making bad life decisions in the absence of their ongoing support. I've also got other life experiences where there's been, or is likely to be, 'premature' death or serious depression amongst friends and family. It hurts a lot when it happens but I've come to terms with the fact it does happen, and often can't be prevented from happening. So, as I now approach 52, with the possibility that the prognosis might be similar for me, i.e. I could be dead in less than a decade just because of my family history and genetic susceptibility, it's hard for me to act just to preserve a hope of extending 'senior years' by sacrificing or limiting the potential for joy in the present.)
I sympathise with your family situation but we are being asked to wear a mask in enclosed public spaces and on public transport as well as isolate for 10 days if you have covid, which is hardly putting your life in a parking bay.
In any case , it isn't just old people we are trying to protect, it is people like yourself if you are in a vulnerable category. Best wishes anyway, let's take precautions where we can.
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Old 29-11-21, 02:41 PM   #438
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Default Re: The Covid19 thread

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Are you suggesting anybody over 70 doesn't deserve protecting ?!
No, that's an over-simplification. Being left more at risk by policy is not the same as being unprotected. The approach to dealing with all must be balanced and proportionate. It's always a trade-off and there isn't one perfect answer to be found. However, I can conceive that denying the young en-masse a reasonable expectation of social interaction, experience and wellbeing is possibly inappropriate (or unfair) and will lead to many other problems for individuals and society. Sadly there will inevitably be some who lose out whatever position is selected but we can't avoid making certain policy-level choices - that still sits uncomfortably for me, though.
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I sympathise with your family situation but we are being asked to wear a mask in enclosed public spaces and on public transport as well as isolate for 10 days if you have covid, which is hardly putting your life in a parking bay.
In any case , it isn't just old people we are trying to protect, it is people like yourself if you are in a vulnerable category. Best wishes anyway, let's take precautions where we can.
Thank you for the suportive words. My life is a mess for a whole host of reasons but I'm definitely not looking for sympathy, I wrote what I did to provide context and illustrate the perspective of my opinions.

Whilst the imposed requirements nowadays are obviously not off-the-scale ridiculous, we have to accept that they follow c.18months that included draconian lockdown that prevented people seeing family and friends or doing any non-subsistence activities. That was definitely a parking bay existence! There also remains a continuing ribbon of fear being propogated that is further affecting the way society functions in general.

I may be "vulnerable" (but probably not in covid terms, against official categorisations, to my knowledge) but I do not want anyone to protect me - I am content to make my own choices about risks and take the consequences. (FWIW, I have immediate family far more vulnerable than me and they feel much the same way.) Prevention/Restriction/Limitation is culturally difficult in our way of life so we shouldn't be surprised that people push back. Unfortunately, restoring the joy of life we had pre-covid is far more complex than just allowing the activities to return with a mask and warnings about social distancing. I've taken reasonable precautions to guard myself (having the jabs etc.), and no question that if I suspect symptoms in me I will act to prevent pass-on as far as I can by isolating etc. However, I find the implicit demand that we should all behave in everything we do like everyone (including ourselves) is a killer, 'just in case', to be ever-present and insidious. And it's just demoralising for me.
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Last edited by Ruffy; 29-11-21 at 02:42 PM. Reason: word change
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Old 29-11-21, 03:21 PM   #439
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Default Re: The Covid19 thread

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And it's just demoralising for me.
It's not great for the rest of us, but I think there's a lot more apathy about Covid now. I travelled on the underground yesterday for the first time in ages. Masks are required, but only 50% of people we wearing them and TfL staff clearly didnt' give a s**t either.

The new Omicron variant is still an unknown quantity. As usual, we won't know if it is genuinely important until it's too late to do anything about it. It might be another Delta which will race through the population, or a Beta which never really got going despite some worthwhile mutations.

The government isn't much better off at telling what's going to happen with Omicron than we are. So we'll just have to put up with their best guess and either:

a) Wear masks for a bit
b) Endure lockdown for a bit
c) Sit in a dark corner with buckets over our heads for two weeks

Option c) would probably stop Covid dead in its tracks, and two weeks of starvation would reduce the obesity problem significantly too. But it would result in a nation wide bucket shortage and none of the Tory party donors has a monopoly on buckets (yet).

Just my random ramblings,

Keith.
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Old 29-11-21, 03:50 PM   #440
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Default Re: The Covid19 thread

I have written war and peace on this about 3 times and deleted it, too much of a rant.

3 Simple Things everyone can do.

Get all your Vaccinations done - Much less chance of getting Ill when you catch it, not designed to stop you catching covid but to help you survive the virus.

Wear a mask - simple, probably won't stop you getting it but really helps to stop you passing it on if you get it especially if it's between tests.

Don't be manky, keep your hands cleaned.

Yes it's a demoralising experience we have had for the past 18 odd months but truth be told, it's better than 300k+dead a trashed (worse than it is) NHS and Excel being used as a Morgue rather than an un-needed standby hospital.

Me? - Well i'm still hiding away as much as I can, have the bike for some fun (well when it's not icy anyway) and a PC for the rest of the time, much happier to lose a couple of year than end up dead.
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