I can't believe it? Independence?????

I don't think anyone accused anyone of being stupid or brainwashed, merely ill-informed.

People see what they want to see and believe what they want to believe. The media feeds it to them and they lap it up.

Unless you go out there and look for the facts, from unbiased standpoints you cant make an informed decision.
Most people lack the inclination to do this. Thus most people believe what the media feeds them.

Tell us why continuing the union will benefit us in any way shape or form and we'll have the debate you long for.

[TamSV]

Originally Posted by The Basket

This

And from that comment you've fairly surmised that he wants you dead?

You believe what u want to believe.

I have to go now. Toodles.

[punyXpress]

Originally Posted by The Basket

Quite so.

Have you registered to vote?

Fenjer...do you wish me to quote the lazy brainwashed bit?
I am not ill informed just have a different view.
What l biased!
What has the Union given you? No idea. I dont know your circumstances.
But why do you think its failed? Its been very successful. Your living in a free country without fear of war, terror or imprisonment. Free political will and access to healthcare and education. UK is one of the very few states in Europe which wasnt occupied or had a military dictatorship. Low interest rates and low inflation and unemployment is lower than most countries. You are free to travel and say what you wish.
Those are huge benefits and each one real. Not an exercise in statistics. Some Nats portray the concept of Scotland as downtrodden or oppressed when its not.

I simply do not believe the SNP propoganda one little bit. Yes Scotland could be an independent nation but you will have to negotiate with Europe and England what happens next and thats a huge what if.

The currency issue is still unknown which would be top of my list to resolve. If you use the pound then you are using a currency without control. If you go into a currency union then England as the Richer nation will want strict controls on the scottish economy. Look at the failure of the Euro and the backwash of that.

[littleoldman2]

Originally Posted by The Basket

The currency issue is still unknown which would be top of my list to resolve. If you use the pound then you are using a currency without control. If you go into a currency union then England as the Richer nation will want strict controls on the scottish economy. Look at the failure of the Euro and the backwash of that.

I am sure that if Scotland flourishes as an independent nation (I hope they do) they will not want to be tied to the pound.
As a truly independent nation why would they want to support the UK.
Independent nations set their own fiscal policy's, monetary union does not suit that.
The Bank of England does not believe monetary union works, that's why the UK kept the pound. Be under no doubt that they will do whatever they need to to keep the pound firmly under their sole control.

The 2 options are currency union or currency substitution.
If Scotland uses the £ in a currency substitution then the downsides are loss of economic control. If Scotland becomes richer than the UK but the UK goes down the toilet then Scotland goes down the toilet as well. Also Scotland will have no economic or democratic say so on the £. It would be totally dependent on the economy of the UK. The only nations that use currency substitution are little islands and banana republics.

A currency union will involve going to the Bank of England and asking nicely. The deal will certainly be that London controls the Scottish economy. Like Germany controls the Greek economy now.

Whats this means in real terms that Scotland is totally wound up with the economy of London without democratic representation and now dealing with a foriegn power who has a different agenda.

How ili informed am I?

[littleoldman2]

Originally Posted by The Basket

The 2 options are currency union or currency substitution.
If Scotland uses the £ in a currency substitution then the downsides are loss of economic control. If Scotland becomes richer than the UK but the UK goes down the toilet then Scotland goes down the toilet as well. Also Scotland will have no economic or democratic say so on the £. It would be totally dependent on the economy of the UK. The only nations that use currency substitution are little islands and banana republics.

A currency union will involve going to the Bank of England and asking nicely. The deal will certainly be that London controls the Scottish economy. Like Germany controls the Greek economy now.

Whats this means in real terms that Scotland is totally wound up with the economy of London without democratic representation and now dealing with a foriegn power who has a different agenda.

How ili informed am I?

Slovenia used the German Mark very successfully for a few years pre Euro and many eastern block countries used the USD or DM for virtually all their foreign transactions and most of the black market for many years. It can be made to work BUT why would an independent Scotland want to. The economies of the two (or maybe 4) nations will diverge within a decade or two making it unworkable.

Currency Substutuion can work.
currency Union can work.
But when the excrement hits the fan...it dont.
If Scotland is going to be such a super rich country, why would it want to peg its economy with the failing disaster that is the UK. It seems that the benfits of union such as economic stability are tough to get away from.
There are lots of examples of currency substitution but Not in this Scotland UK context.
Not that i am aware of.

[littleoldman2]

I have to say at this point that if I was a Scot I'd vote YES for a truly independent Scotland.

Monetary union however is not going to last long if at all.