Solar panels

[Nobbylad]

At your age Mike, you might have been better off making a (tax free) £15k contribution to your retirement fund.

[flymo]

Originally Posted by Dave20046

What does this mean cash wise?
My mum's wanting to do it and I think I put her off on my thoughts re. re-sale... but I've been thinking I doubt they'll ever move so if it'll be some benefit to her I want them got.

what is it that you want to know? I'll do my best to answer.

[flymo]

Originally Posted by Nobbylad

At your age Mike, you might have been better off making a (tax free) £15k contribution to your retirement fund.

cheers nob------by. where did this age thing come from anyway, I've never been especially bothered about my age as far as I know?

[Nobbylad]

Just yanking your chain matey...

[tigersaw]

Originally Posted by flymo

where do your investment return numbers come from? from the Halifax savings calculator I work out that in order to raise my capital from 15K to 25K by using a savings account at 3%, that would take just over 21 years assuming that you have to pay tax.

The 15K figure you use is also a little high, especially for a typical installation. I paid just under 14K and that got me the biggest system I could buy without exceeding the limitations of the best feed-in-tariff rate criteria, thats a 3.99 kWp system using 21 Suntech panels. Most homes either would not require this many panels or could avoid spending as much as I did, but even if you do not consume all the energy it can create it is worthwhile buying as large a system as you can accomodate and afford.

Its easy to get 6-8% on a sum of 15k if you commit to 5 years plus.
Currently NS&I will give you RPI+0.5% tax free on much smaller amounts.
But ok, I'm referring to the presentation I attended. They relied on the flakey concept that once the feed in had returned your capital, (and there are risks obviously involved, such as panel failure, change of heart from a new government) it was all profit.

[flymo]

Originally Posted by tigersaw

Its easy to get 6-8% on a sum of 15k if you commit to 5 years plus.
Currently NS&I will give you RPI+0.5% tax free on much smaller amounts.
But ok, I'm referring to the presentation I attended. They relied on the flakey concept that once the feed in had returned your capital, (and there are risks obviously involved, such as panel failure, change of heart from a new government) it was all profit.

ok, so even on the best rates you can obtain by committing funds for that length of time you might start to approach the pay back period of solar.

What it doesnt give you though is protection against the rising cost of energy, the faster the prices rise (12% from eON only the other week) then the closer the solar payback period gets. Our own estimates show that our system will have paid for itself in just over 9 years assuming a modest energy price increase over the full period.

I certainly wouldn't rate a contracted scheme as flakey, its actually a bloody good deal to stimulate the adoption of this technology.
The FIT is a contract so I assume that if a future government where daft enough to go against the previous agreements already made under that contract then they would be legally exposed to providing some form of compensation, never say never I guess but I would consider that extremely unlikely to happen. The FIT payments are guaranteed for 25 years and are also index linked.

The solar panels themselves are also under guarantee to provide a predictable output throughout their lifespan. Failed panels appear to be rare outside of any accidental damage and can be easily replaced if necessary.

From my own calculations and every other source of information I could find when I was researching this, everything points to it being a very sound investment. If the performance I've experienced so far is anything to go by then its going to save me a huge amount on my electricity bill, since I returned home on Friday my meter now reads 4 units less than it did. That's 4 days of free electricity in effect, in a large house with our washing machine going practically non-stop today.

Anyway, its totally your choice. Just wanted to share my own experiences.

[tigersaw]

I'm trying to be convinced. I accept that electricity charges will rise, probably by more than inflation for the foreseeable future.
Your own statement saying it will have paid for itself in 9 years - is that just the capital return, or what the capital would have been worth invested?
Its all early days for me. It will fall in price - for instance the inverters can be retro fitted for more efficient and power factor corrected versions for considerably less than the fitters charge, the PV panels' efficiency will creep up. Against all that the feed in tarriff, whilst guarrenteed for yourself, will not be so generous in the future.
As an aside, what is to stop you buying the electric at 13p and feeding it back as simulated solar generated at 44p?

[Dave20046]

Originally Posted by flymo

what is it that you want to know? I'll do my best to answer.

Paying for itself in 9 years, that's all I needed to know matey. Will have a look into it properly when I get a chance!

[flymo]

Originally Posted by tigersaw

I'm trying to be convinced. I accept that electricity charges will rise, probably by more than inflation for the foreseeable future.
Your own statement saying it will have paid for itself in 9 years - is that just the capital return, or what the capital would have been worth invested?

Best way to understand all thats included is to fill in the free investment calculator on the energy savings trust website, its free to do.

Its all early days for me. It will fall in price - for instance the inverters can be retro fitted for more efficient and power factor corrected versions for considerably less than the fitters charge, the PV panels' efficiency will creep up.

That's all true of course, technology never stands still. At some point though you have to get on the merry go round as there will always be something better/cheaper in future years.

Against all that the feed in tarriff, whilst guarrenteed for yourself, will not be so generous in the future.
As an aside, what is to stop you buying the electric at 13p and feeding it back as simulated solar generated at 44p?

I fully expect the FIT to reduce as more and more people adopt solar, thats the point of it to get things moving. I think it has already been announced that it will drop by a percentage in April and would expect it to do the same annually, the good thing is that you retain the rate you get at the point of entering the scheme, it only reduces for new joiners. Only thing stopping me selling back what I buy from the grid is the law, the FIT is a payment to cover what you generate from a solar installation, as measured by the meter installed at the time. You would be committing fraud by doing so. Also nothing stopping you from buying a small gadget to connect up to your meter to make it go backwards, but still thats illegal. It was quite satisfying the other day when the meter man came to take readings when we both watched my meter legally spinning furiously backwards while the sun was out

[flymo]

Originally Posted by Dave20046

Paying for itself in 9 years, that's all I needed to know matey. Will have a look into it properly when I get a chance!

Theres a financial benefits calculator here that you might find useful. http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/...ack-Calculator