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Old 31-03-20, 07:41 AM   #21
daktulos
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Default Re: Social Distancing ...

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Originally Posted by Biker Biggles View Post
I hadnt thought of post as being a significant carrier of the virus. Does it persist on letters/papers for very long?
The advice I heard was that it's possible, but much shorter than on hard surfaces (maybe a couple of hours), and not to worry about it too much and just continue to wash your hands after receiving post.

Of course, no one really knows for sure, and if you're particularly vulnerable it may still be worth taking additional steps.
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Old 31-03-20, 08:41 AM   #22
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Default Re: Social Distancing ...

Most viruses - including Covid-19 - don't actually remain actively infectious for long on surfaces like metal, plastic and paper, maybe a few hours at most, because they're not 'alive' as such. They're bundles of RNA held together loosely with some protein chains. Unless the virus binds to the receptors on an animal or human cell, the virus starts to fall apart (this is why handwashing with soap is effective, it breaks up the proteins around the RNA core and stops the virus being able to work).

However, their RNA is still detectable on those surfaces for days, even though the virus has 'died.' For fans of crime and forensics shows, it's the equivalent of being able to find DNA on old bed sheets etc days or weeks after a crime has been committed.
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Old 31-03-20, 10:26 AM   #23
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As Craig says the virus doesn't survive away from a host for as long as the media have been trying to convince us, but unless you have a particularly long drive two hours is plenty long enough for your postman to have coughed into his hand before picking up your letters and putting them through your door..... That's why we treat the outside of the letter/parcel but are not to concerned with the contents.
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Old 31-03-20, 10:58 AM   #24
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This is interesting, from The Guardian:https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-lord-sumption

According to the article: "The National Police Chiefs Council (NPCC) and College of Policing are rushing through guidance reminding officers that despite politicians’ warnings, they cannot bar people from going for a run or a drive. It will state that while certain actions such as driving to exercise may be unwise, they are not prohibited by the emergency powers, according to sources with knowledge of detailed discussions. It is also expected to conclude the law does not restrict people to exercising outside only once a day."

Now I am NOT saying "everyone disconnect their Optimates and get their bikes out" but I do agree that the responses of some police forces in some cases has been disproportionate. If the Government issues clear instructions - such as those in France, Spain, Greece etc - then those should be enforced. But right now, the Government's recommendations are guidelines, not a law, and it's a slippery slope if individual forces are allowed to interpret that how they wish.

Last edited by Craig380; 31-03-20 at 10:59 AM.
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Old 31-03-20, 11:28 AM   #25
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Default Re: Social Distancing ...

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Originally Posted by Craig380 View Post
This is interesting, from The Guardian:https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-lord-sumption

According to the article: "The National Police Chiefs Council (NPCC) and College of Policing are rushing through guidance reminding officers that despite politicians’ warnings, they cannot bar people from going for a run or a drive. It will state that while certain actions such as driving to exercise may be unwise, they are not prohibited by the emergency powers, according to sources with knowledge of detailed discussions. It is also expected to conclude the law does not restrict people to exercising outside only once a day."

Now I am NOT saying "everyone disconnect their Optimates and get their bikes out" but I do agree that the responses of some police forces in some cases has been disproportionate. If the Government issues clear instructions - such as those in France, Spain, Greece etc - then those should be enforced. But right now, the Government's recommendations are guidelines, not a law, and it's a slippery slope if individual forces are allowed to interpret that how they wish.
Some forces have been pretty daft with this so it's a good thing to reign them in, but at the same time some people have also been really daft with their interpretation of the advice - if these folk happen to have their photo taken via use of a drone then, oh well!

We're somewhat waiting on exercise being banned or at least geofenced within a radius of your house like the ROI did. But my simple opinion on riding motorcycles for pleasure is - Don't -

Last edited by Chris_SVS; 31-03-20 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 31-03-20, 04:20 PM   #26
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Default Re: Social Distancing ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig380 View Post
This is interesting, from The Guardian:https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-lord-sumption

According to the article: "The National Police Chiefs Council (NPCC) and College of Policing are rushing through guidance reminding officers that despite politicians’ warnings, they cannot bar people from going for a run or a drive. It will state that while certain actions such as driving to exercise may be unwise, they are not prohibited by the emergency powers, according to sources with knowledge of detailed discussions. It is also expected to conclude the law does not restrict people to exercising outside only once a day."

Now I am NOT saying "everyone disconnect their Optimates and get their bikes out" but I do agree that the responses of some police forces in some cases has been disproportionate. If the Government issues clear instructions - such as those in France, Spain, Greece etc - then those should be enforced. But right now, the Government's recommendations are guidelines, not a law, and it's a slippery slope if individual forces are allowed to interpret that how they wish.
It's not been enforced, yet, as they want this to be a 'choice' as much of it is a suggestion. That way at least people feel like they are have an active role in choosing to stay home, and minimising their outings unless absolutely necessary.
Granted it is open to interpretation. And you will always get people who will do what they want, because they don't understand their potential impact on the larger society and the bigger picture.
100 years ago people had to go to war to save lives- and most didn't have a choice in it. All we need to do is stay home. I know which one I prefer to do....
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Old 31-03-20, 06:28 PM   #27
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Default Re: Social Distancing ...

Rather than trying to interpret the various versions that keep getting thrown around in the media it's probably best to go straight to the source and make your own informed opinion.

This is a good place to start, if you've an eye for reading the actual legislation it's there for you, if you want to read the version for dummies which is what they give to the police officers it's there to.......

http://ukpolicelawblog.com
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Old 31-03-20, 07:21 PM   #28
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Default Re: Social Distancing ...

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Originally Posted by Biker Biggles View Post
I hadnt thought of post as being a significant carrier of the virus. Does it persist on letters/papers for very long?
It's more of a risk than exclusively motorcycle affecting droplets.
I think I caught it through work using keyboards others hadn't used in days, a colleague who wore latex gloves has remained well whereas every other member of the same team fell ill.

I'd seen a report that when clearing out one of the covid ravaged cruiseships they found traces of the virus on stainless steel 17 days later. Think it was the Guardian or I but could be wrong. They previously said 3 days, clothing and fabric less. Shiny paper...who knows.
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Old 31-03-20, 07:58 PM   #29
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Default Re: Social Distancing ...

I think Craig explained that rather well a few posts previously. You can find traces of the virus for some considerable time but that doesn't mean the virus was still viable and capable of infection.

Incidentally wearing gloves doesn't stop you catching it directly, you don't get infected through the skin on your hands. They can help in that you are less inclined to touch your face whilst wearing gloves, and even less likely to eat something with them on, but they can give a false sense of security. You only have to watch the way people are behaving with them on. I'll give you an example.

People drive to the supermarket, get out of the car and put their gloves on before getting their trolly. They then do all their shopping, take it back to the car and open the door to put the shopping in. After they have returned the trolly they take their gloves off, get in the car and drive home. What do they do when they get home? Open the door to get the shopping out and in doing so transfer any virus that was on their gloves to their hands via the handle. They then handle all the shopping they had also previously handled with their gloves on, putting it all away whilst having that cup of tea and biscuit they had been so looking forward to whilst shopping..... See what I mean? If they hadn't been wearing gloves they would have treated everything they had touched, and their hands, as a potential infection risk and washed them before getting in the car, after unpacking, and before eating or drinking anything. There's a reason people are still getting infected left right and centre, this Virus is a proper bugger!
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Old 31-03-20, 08:37 PM   #30
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Default Re: Social Distancing ...

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Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
I think Craig explained that rather well a few posts previously. You can find traces of the virus for some considerable time but that doesn't mean the virus was still viable and capable of infection.

Incidentally wearing gloves doesn't stop you catching it directly, you don't get infected through the skin on your hands. They can help in that you are less inclined to touch your face whilst wearing gloves, and even less likely to eat something with them on, but they can give a false sense of security. You only have to watch the way people are behaving with them on. I'll give you an example.

People drive to the supermarket, get out of the car and put their gloves on before getting their trolly. They then do all their shopping, take it back to the car and open the door to put the shopping in. After they have returned the trolly they take their gloves off, get in the car and drive home. What do they do when they get home? Open the door to get the shopping out and in doing so transfer any virus that was on their gloves to their hands via the handle. They then handle all the shopping they had also previously handled with their gloves on, putting it all away whilst having that cup of tea and biscuit they had been so looking forward to whilst shopping..... See what I mean? If they hadn't been wearing gloves they would have treated everything they had touched, and their hands, as a potential infection risk and washed them before getting in the car, after unpacking, and before eating or drinking anything. There's a reason people are still getting infected left right and centre, this Virus is a proper bugger!

Yes, I understand that. I touch my face constantly. I don't think I do, but after an afternoon working on the bike my face is one big black smudge, so I must. Gloves would have prevented me doing it.

Hadn't seen craig's reply re. viable infection, hadn't thought of that.
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