Social Distancing ...

[keith_d]

Originally Posted by Bibio

i wonder if places of worship are sticking to social distancing?

What you mean the ones who share a cup of wine and a plate of wafers between the lot of 'em. I'm sure God will take care of them.

[Seeker]

A choir in Washington state (US) decided to go ahead with their practice, they kept to social distancing rules but of the 60 members that showed up (out of a possible 121), 2 are now dead and 45 have symptoms. They think it's because of the forced exhalation of breath during the singing.
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation...choir-outbreak

[daktulos]

Originally Posted by Bibio

i wonder if places of worship are sticking to social distancing?

My personal belief is that this could be why Italy has been so badly affected. It's not a subject which is widely reported on, though.

[Red Herring]

My brother in law is a vicar, he's being doing all his sermons online for the last couple of weeks and the five churches he covers are all closed.

[Ruffy]

Originally Posted by Red Herring

... and the five churches he covers are all closed.

As they should be according to the law.*




*except for funerals, broadcast of services over web, radio or TV broadcast or for other voluntary or public support services (paraphrased).

[Ruffy]

So here's a counterpoint view:
I have to say that, personally, I think the restrictions are disproportionate to the risk, and are likely to cause as much problem in other ways as might be presented by the virus. I'm getting more concerned about unwarranted Big Brother style government control leading to civil unrest than I am about the virus

IMHO, it's now being presented in a way that makes it appear that (i) any infection will likely lead to death and (ii) we should be striving to stop infection occuring. Creating the impression of the first is irresponsible and the second is impossible.

I get the need to slow the spread and try to reduce/spread the coincident peak, but the virus is out there and it will spread.

I'm also concerned about the death rates quoted. In the absence of confirmatory tests of all those showing symptoms, all statistical conclusions are compromised. Apparently, every death is being attributed to Covid where the virus is present but a large number would have been fatalities in the absence of the virus. Also, we have been shown very little by way of comparison with seasonal deaths from other flu-like infections, but these things do happen in large numbers every year.

(FYI, before the flame wars begin, I'm currently self-isolating the household because last week my son, who still lives with me at 25, came down with a killer headache and serious cough as well as slight fever and fatigue that laid him out for the best part of two days. Covid or not? Don't get me wrong, I agree that there's some real sh!t happening, that some mitigation is required and I'm taking it seriously but I just have an opinion that restrictions are being taken too far.)

Is the trade-off of lifestyle vs. risk worth it?


Finally, here's a cheeky curiosity for the internet "lawyers" to ponder:

The new legislation says that leaving the place where you are living is allowed "to avoid injury or illness or to escape risk of harm" (The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020, Section 6 (2)(m).

What would happen if I claimed I am trying to avoid illness by outrunning the coronavirus?

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by Ruffy

Is the trade-off of lifestyle vs. risk worth it?

Bolsonaro (Brazil) has decided to put the economy first although he's fighting some of his local governors, let's see how that works.
https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/fe...181645501.html

I'm a cautious person by nature but I put aside some of that inherent caution to ride a motorbike. I've been riding for nearly 50 years so I was allowed to ride without a helmet when I first started riding; I never did because wearing one mitigated risk.
If I have to sacrifice one summer to keep me and others safe then I'll take the chance that some of the more draconian measures may remain because the risk (of death) has been mitigated (I reserve the right to be annoyed later though )

If I was living in Hungary, I would be more worried:
https://www.businessinsider.com/coro...20-4?r=US&IR=T

[andrewsmith]

Originally Posted by Bibio

i wonder if places of worship are sticking to social distancing?

The Jewish community down here seems to be following the advice. There was 3 in one of small female synagogues out of a possible 30 last night

Sent from my ELE-L29 using Tapatalk

[Craig380]

Originally Posted by Ruffy

I'm also concerned about the death rates quoted. In the absence of confirmatory tests of all those showing symptoms, all statistical conclusions are compromised. Apparently, every death is being attributed to Covid where the virus is present but a large number would have been fatalities in the absence of the virus. Also, we have been shown very little by way of comparison with seasonal deaths from other flu-like infections, but these things do happen in large numbers every year.

I agree with you. For example, at the moment, the majority of Covid-19 testing is done on people who are turning up at hospitals ill, with symptoms that may be the result of Covid-19 infection.

As of yesterday, 152,979 people have been tested, of which 29,474 were positive. So over 80% of people tested DID NOT have Covid-19.

In some cases, I have seen reporting which stated a patient who had tested positive for Covid-19 died, but of something unrelated to the infection. But it seems unclear if the stats are reporting people that died WITH a Covid-19 infection, of those that died OF it. Of course, in people with multiple underlying conditions, it's hard to pinpoint a specific cause of death as they all take their toll.

And Public Health England's stats show that for the past 5 years, the average number of deaths in England alone from 'normal' seasonal 'flu is 17,000 annually. This ranged from 1,692 deaths in 2018/19, to 28,330 deaths in 2014/15.

Covid-19 is a new and serious illness. But we can be sure of one thing: the real number of infections will be MUCH higher than the 153,000 that have tested positive - likely 5x or even 10x that. So while it is sensible that we take precautions to avoid overloading our already creaking healthcare system, I too am concerned that the current restrictions could get even more heavy-handed.

[Biker Biggles]

Im all in favour of doing proper rigorous academic studies of the benefits/costs of variousdifferent policies on this but actually we dont really know how it will pan ut nor do we really know the long term economic/social costs of it. My gut feeling is we need to fight it as hard as possible. Im ok with "emergency powers" with one big proviso. Those powers must be temporary and they must be fully repealed quickly when the crisis is over.