curvy- front end swap

hi all

after a bit of advise, i know it keeps coming up and i may just go down the gsxr 750 K2 route, however...... i dont mind having a go as i imagine most will need work to fit-but anyone done/advise on the following:
[basically how much of a pig to fit/know anyone whos done it-im not bothed about the speedo connections as im not running with one]


(these are all full front ends i have been offered for silly cheap money)
98 r1 usd
rsv mille (early model one with black forks)
gsxr1100 usd

cheers
j

[yorkie_chris]

You can make anything fit anything else if you spend the time and money, but gsxr srad is the easy option.

Out of interest how much is the 1100 front end?

Originally Posted by yorkie_chris

You can make anything fit anything else if you spend the time and money, but gsxr srad is the easy option.

Out of interest how much is the 1100 front end?

140 for EVERYTHING!- literally being removed from a running bike with under20k on it!

though sadly i like the idea of a r1 end as bluespot callipers....

Yes the R1 front end swap is tempting and yes those blue capped calipers are an alure I've read somewhere (maybe on svrider site) of someone who's done it but said that it came out a bit lower in height than stock which changed ergonomics a bit. Something I am weary of.

[yorkie_chris]

Lower at front is good so long as they're not more than 10mm (roughly!) shorter than stock at full compression as you get radiator issues.

I found this in SVRIDER site posted by chrdog

A guide to SV650 forks

UPDATED 10/5/04

it seems as though alot of us SV'ers are not satisfied with the stock suspension. we are always tweeking this, adding that, or replacing everything!

so i thought it was high time someone wrote a little guide for those who are planning to upgrade their forks, or just want more information on what their options are. i am not an EXPERT or a PROFESSIONAL, but suspension is something that really interests me so i read books, watch dvd's, and discuss it on these boards whenever i get a chance.

DISCLAIMER: anything you do with these instructions and advice is purely your choice and i claim no responsiblity i will correct any erroneous info i post, just let me know.
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STOCK FORKS:
the stock forks are something that was stuck onto the sv to meet its pricepoint. they had to cut corners somewhere, and the forks (and rear shock) helped them do that. they are basically a very low-tech damping mechanism. they are whats called damper rod forks.

damper rod forks are named after the damper rod (duh), which is a tube inside of the forks at the bottom end of them. they have 4 holes drilled into them that oil flows in and out of (5 counting the small top hole). as you apply the brake or let off the gas abruptly, the oil in the forks is pressed through the damper rod holes. the faster you brake, the faster the oil gets pressed through the holes. the damping effect comes into play when only so much oil can get through the holes at one time and its creates the effect of slowing the dive. has to do something with hydraulics, but im not gonna get too technical here.

the rate the oil gets pushed through is determined by a few things:
#1: the weight of the fork oil (the heavier the oil, the more damping)
#2: the stiffness of the springs (the stiffer the springs, the less likely they are to compress)
#3: the size of the actual damper rod holes
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STOCK FORK PROBLEMS AND SOLUTIONS
the stock forks come sprung really soft from the factory, and its very hard to get correct sag numbers from them for a rider of more than 150lbs. they also suffer from watery fork oil. i believe its 5wt from the factory, but i know for a fact that its not more than 10wt. these two things when performing in concert, add up to a severely divey front end. if youve ever had to stop suddenly, you will definitely notice the huge dive from stock SV forks, maybe they even bottom out. and forks SHOULD actually dive, but not as much and as uncontrolled as the SV's do.

there are serveral routes you can take to fix these problems.

#1: stiffer springs. these help by giving the forks more dive resistance.
the most popular fork spring maker for the SV would be racetech ( www.racetech.com , they also offer svrider.com members a 20% discount on parts pruchased through them when you mention that you're a member and give them your member name). you can answer a few questions on their website and they give you the proper spring rate for your weight.

#2: thicker fork oil. thicker oil will basically give you more damping because less of it can flow through the damping holes at any given time.
fork oil comes in many brands, i use bel-ray 20wt. i would suggest 20wt or heavier oil, though you will probably wanna play around till you find out what combination you like best.

#3: the racetech goldvalve emulator. the racetech emulator is a device that attempts to partially turn your forks into a more modern cartridge-style fork by giving you compression adjustability. basically, you drill out the holes in the damper rod until they are useless as a tool for damping. this turns over control to the emulator, which sits atop your damper rod. when combined with a stiffer spring and thicker oil, it is a very effective tool in combating severe nose dive.

the combination of all three is a great setup for everything from commuting to canyon carving to even racing! some people even say that the goldvalve emulator is not really needed, even for racetrack use.

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FORK SWAPS
the problem with the above setup is not really its LACK of adjustability, but its EASE of adjustability. controlling compression (assuming you have the emulator) requires you to put your bike up on a triple tree stand or hang it so the wheel is suspended, take the fork caps off, use some sort of magnetic device to get the emulator out of the fork, adjust it, put it back in, and seal everything up. to adjust rebound, you have to REPLACE the fork oil, which requires either a vacuum of sorts, or removal of the forks and dumping the oil out. THEN you have to factor in what your different oil did to your compression settings on your goldvalve. this would start to be a pain in the ass, especially if you are at the track and you need to adjust your stuff on-the-fly. which leads me to what alot of SV'er are turning to: fork swaps.

people turn to fork swaps because of the ease of adjustability. need to adjust rebound damping a little? turn that little knob with a flathead screwdriver. same goes for compression, turn a little knob with a flathead and find a nice spot you like. what you get as an added bonus (in a swap from more modern bikes at least) is better brakes, and sometimes inverted forks, which have their own bonus list. there is also another route to go, which i havent done too much research on, which is swapping the internals and lowers of the stock SV forks, for honda f3 internals, which are cartridge style. i wont go too much into this because i dont know much about it yet.

Theoretically, you can put **** near any fork you want onto the SV. zx6rr's, gsxr's, r1's, etc etc...almost all will require the entire front end; forks, triples, wheel, rotors, brakes, clipons, fender....

the most common would be the gsxr forks. out of the gsxr forks, the two most commonly used for swaps are 96-99 SRAD 750 forks, and the 00-03 750 forks. they are both USD (upside down) forks made by showa. the 00-03 forks are known to be some of the best stock forks ever put on a bike (besides european ohlins bikes). theyare cartridge style forks, which basically have two different valves that control compression and rebound.

speaking only for the 00-03 gsxr 750/1000 fork swap, the 99-02 will need some modification (read below), the 03 and im pretty sure the 04 as well, i cant get ahold of the fiche files to confirm this, need no modification whatsoever, they will bolt right up to it.

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ISSUES WITH SWAPS
there are a few issues you will be dealing with if you decide to go the swap route:
#1. the 99-02 sv needs either a special steering head bearing for the gsxr swap, or you can braze material onto the existing bearing. TWF (look his name up in the member directory) sells the bearing you will need. this will be the case for alot of fork swaps.
#2. you will lose your front drive speedo. recently someone figuired out how to refit the speedo drive onto the rear wheel. heres the link:
http://www.socalsvriders.org/forums/...threadid=10167
the exception would be the R1 front end, it retains speedo use.
#3. if you have a naked, you will need a place to remount your speedo and headlight. if you work good with metal, this should be a breeze, if not, you probably want to contact a fabricator shop to have them bust you out some bracketry.
#4. most of the swap forks are shorter than the stock forks. for this reason, the bike will tip in faster than before. trail is not an issue though, because the sv has tons to spare.
#5. some people will say that you have to revalve the swapped forks for them to actually work alot better than the stock forks. this is not true, BUT, there is always room for improvement.
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COST
stock fork stuff_______________________
fork oil: 4-5 bucks, depending on brand.
racetech springs: 100 bucks (~90 shipped with the svrider discount)
racetech goldvalve emulators: 130ish, you can find used ones sometimes.
pre-drilled and brazed damper rod from traxxion dynamics: 100 bucks.
whole package from traxxion (springs, oil, traxxion damper rod, emulators, labor) 450 bucks plus shipping. basically you send them your forks and they upgrade them for you.

swap fork costs________________________
forks: 175-600
wheel and rotors: 170-300
brake calipers and controls: 50-100
triples: 40-70
fender: 50-80
axle: 20?
steering head bearing: 55?
special gsxr wheel tool: 10-24 (depends on your make and model of front end, you can either get a huge alan key [19-27mm] or a gsxr wheel tool off ebay, look for a seller named komodo draggin)
entire front end (recommended): 600-900

ebay is your friend for parts. so are boards like this and racing boards, racers love getting new stuff and parting out old bikes, and you can reap the benifits of this if you just troll around race message boards.

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SWAP COMPATABILITY LIST:
wheels:
00-03 GSXR750 wheel will fit in:
--00-03 GSXR600 forks
--00-03 GSXR750 forks
--01-03 GSXR1000 forks

triples:
96-04 GSXR750 triples can hold:
--basically any forks that have 50mm tops with 54mm main tubes
(to be continued)
have fun.

[dizzyblonde]

I wonder if the Cagiva Raptor 650 USD forks would go?

[yorkie_chris]

Probably but what's the point when there are better alternatives for less money

r1 front end ba5tard1sation = full steam ahead. god bless the font of knowledge of svrider.com and the beloved sv650.org!

[dizzyblonde]

Originally Posted by yorkie_chris

Probably but what's the point when there are better alternatives for less money

it were only a hmmm I wonder what they' do sorta thing..and theres a set on fleabay
Besides I'm happy with mine ta well one front end at least, i'm sure after the rears been sorted on the other all will be fine again