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Old 08-05-14, 09:31 PM   #31
Spank86
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Default Re: Halal meat

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Also I'm not sure I accept that the God of Islam would be considered a false God. Isaac and Ishmael were brothers - Their father talked to god - Ones descendants became the Jews, ones the Arabs. The God is the same - just a different manifestation / practice.
It's true that by so up traditions they both began following the same god, but then that's a family that has long history of falling away from worship of god in favour of idols.

Yes they both believe they are talking to the same god but see my post above for why it's potentially incompatible.

I would argue that in context Muslims would come under the heading of "Gentiles" (based on the understanding of the time it was written)
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Old 08-05-14, 09:34 PM   #32
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Default Re: Halal meat

as far as i'm aware it's not a sacrificial ritual. the prayer is said to sanctify/bless the meat. if it were a sacrificial ritual then Islam would technically be classed as a pagan religion.
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Old 08-05-14, 09:37 PM   #33
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as far as i'm aware it's not a sacrificial ritual. the prayer is said to sanctify/bless the meat. if it were a sacrificial ritual then Islam would technically be classed as a pagan religion.
The difference between the two is something I'm not qualified to determine.

I am however pretty sure it's a fine line if there is one.
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Old 08-05-14, 09:38 PM   #34
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Default Re: Halal meat

Which may be applicable to practicing Christians at the time that people were still referred to as Gentiles.
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Old 08-05-14, 09:46 PM   #35
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Default Re: Halal meat

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Which may be applicable to practicing Christians at the time that people were still referred to as Gentiles.
The text at the time was in Latin, gentile is a translation (from the KJV as it happens, I always liked the form of it best) but I'm not aware of any authority that's superseded it in between?

It's certainly newer than "thou shalt not kill" and since then the religion now called Islam has only moved further away from Christianity and from a Christian perspective presumably further towards the worship of a false or different god.
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Old 08-05-14, 09:58 PM   #36
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Default Re: Halal meat

I was meaning to refer back to the the original point of the prayer being said over the slaughter affecting a 'practicing christian' rather than arguing the context of what was meant when the books were written.

Unlike Islam, I don't know of a group in Britain that take such a literal meaning of text. Even modern documents giving the accepted interpretations of the bible such as 'Vatican II' are not taken literally with guidance given that things should be taken as the 'Spirit of Vatican II" rather than exactly what is contained in the words.

Modern practice is therefore a watered down version of the passages you are quoting, which I'm sure are correct in a purely academic sense. So I still can't see why in a modern sense the prayer being said over the slaughter should offend a modern practicing christian, unless there was some other form of prejudice behind it.

In any case, I seem to have made my point badly, so I'm out.
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Old 08-05-14, 09:58 PM   #37
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Default Re: Halal meat

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Modern practice is therefore a watered down version of the passages you are quoting, which I'm sure are correct in a purely academic sense. So I still can't see why in a modern sense the prayer being said over the slaughter should offend a modern practicing christian, unless there was some other form of prejudice behind it.

In any case, I seem to have made my point badly, so I'm out.
I think you're confusing the organisations with the practitioners, the organisations can say what they like but they don't actually have biblical standing, the individual Christians are the ones that have to make up their minds.


Essentially I can't definitively say its bad, and from what I've read neither can the bible but I certainly believe its significant enough to warrant labelling and the decision being in the hands of individuals whatever their beliefs.

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Old 08-05-14, 10:08 PM   #38
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Default Re: Halal meat

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Wow hasn't todays news been thoroughly misreported and misunderstood.
The thread is poorly titled. The article on Halal was just the catalyst for my rant. My point was simply: Why do non religious people who eat meat make such a big deal about how an animal is killed? Killing is the worst thing you can do to it, so the argument is ridiculous. Its like bringing slippers to break into someone's house and rape their sleeping children because your shoes might make their carpet dirty. It's an irrelevant detail given the horror of the act.

The whole religious debate was not of interest to me.
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Old 08-05-14, 10:15 PM   #39
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How is killing the worst thing you can do?

If you could guarantee it wasn't painful you could kill me tomorrow and I wouldn't give a damn (I'd be too dead to care). Pain is the worst thing you can do.

Of course killing actually people gives pain to their friends and family, I'm not sure mommy cow cares though.
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Old 08-05-14, 10:15 PM   #40
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I totally agree with Bib's comment of kill it, cook it, eat it, this is why when I have had perfectly good pigeon in my sights I have not shot them because I cannot cook them. I would however still reiterate comments that I have made on other threads, go to your local butcher not a supermarket, they can give you real details about what you are eating. Not a vegetarian, just a lazy eater who cannot be bothered to eat meat, I do eat fish it takes less chewing, yes that lazy, and I could never be a vegetarian, I love leather shoes and handbags.
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