Freedom of speech ?

[Supervox]

Having just read the "apologies" thread - & then the "suicide" thread that prompted it I would just like to make the following comments :-

I may not & indeed do not agree with some things that are posted on this forum - but if said outside this forum I would defend the person's right to say them - it comes with the territory if you live in a free society.

HOWEVER

This is NOT a public forum, we are all members of a site that is run (for no financial gain) by the 'Admins' and monitored by the Moderators. I would like to suggest that if a topic is considered "unsuitable" then those that run & monitor these pages should lock / delete a thread before it gets anywhere close to the comments made in the above 2 threads.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not having a go at our Admins or Mods - just suggesting that maybe some topics are not suitable on THIS forum for reasonable debate - the difficulty lies in deciding where to draw the line.

In the past year I have read some outrageous (in my opinion) remarks made against several members - but no (obvious) action has been taken (what may have taken place via Admin or Mod PM's is obviously beyond my knowledge) so, I can only suggest that either "anything goes" (within the stated site 'U' Rating) & people are allowed to say what they like / feel & therefore leave themselves open to any 'flaming' that they may incur; or, the threads themselves may need to be monitored a little bit more closely.

So, Admins & Mods - in a nutshell . . .

. . . if we can't behave like adults . . .

. . . treat us like kids !!

See the post I have just made on the apologies thread...

While I can think of soem subject that would be unsuitable I can't say I have come across them on this forum. What is not helpful is the personal abuse which occasionally surfaces... This is not easy to draw a line on... sometimes it's banter but I think it's pretty clear that some of the abuse on the two threads you're talking about, Supervox, is not acceptable.

I think there are two probelms:
(a) email/electronic communication is very easy and it's too easy to press the send/submit button
(b) anonymity increases the problem

On the first, last Monday I had to be extremely clear to a senior colleague of mine that writing stuff that might possibly have been okay face to face when the tone could have been established was not acceptable on email. He was, I think, genuine surprised. He's a very bright guy but often displays very little awareness of how what he says etc is being perceived...

Over on the Hornet's Nest (yeah...I know ) there's a section called "Rants" which isn't freely available just by registering to use the Nest. It's an opt-in section for over 18's where the Mods give a bit more leeway with regard to subject matter, etc.

Conversely, the more public areas are, I think, a bit more controlled/restricted.

I'm not saying it's better that way, just offering it up as an idea for for discussion.

I would like to point out that if you come to the SW&S area you'll find you have no freedom of speech, and I'll change your posts to suit my amusement.

The other problem is while this forum is not a democracy, it is very hard to know when to make that call, different people deal with it in different ways and as such we can only learn by these things. As a mod you could end up making enemies very easily... we too have rules of the forum to follow and people should remember that.

[northwind]

Hmm... Difficult one isn't it?

Naming no names of course But it seems to me that a lot of the forum has problems with one person that's seen as excessively annoying, and think it's reasonable to respond to their irritation with out and out abuse and unpleasantness. I think one of the mods is clearly in that group, and it actually serves to make things even worse.

But. That's not to criticise the way this site is run- I'd like to think it doesn't take much intervention, this place is utterly brilliant most of the time.

[fizzwheel]

Its extremly difficult. I think if you are a mod you are damned if you do and damned if you dont.

I'm all for free speech and being able to express an opinion and for that opinion to be respected if not necessarily tolerated.

I wont stand for personal abuse and I wont stand for intolerance. However how on earth do you find a point where you dont stifle healthy debate / interesting yet stimulating conversation.

Alot of the time stuff gets posted that I dont personally agree with but I have to put that to one side and try and listen to the alternative side of what I read.

Just because I dont choose to comment doesnt mean I dont agree or disagree.

There has been an immense amount IMHO of intolerance / general unpleasantness in here recently and I know of two regular contributors whose opinion I value and respect that I dont think are going to come back and I think the forum is a lesser place now because of what has been posted in the last day or so.

Please be assured that the events of the last day or so havent gone un noticed or have not been dealt with. They have and I think that as a team of moderators we have done the right thing. Its always my opinon that we protect the right to express your opinoin without intolerance or nastyness but at the same time Its really to hard to draw a line about whats acceptable or what is not. I find myself constantly challenged about what is an OK topic for discussion or debate.

I think at the end of the day we all must show some self restraint and respect. If you arent sure that your post is going to be recieved respectfully or with tolerance then I think that you shoudlnt post it.

I also believe in karma and that you reap what you sow and that what comes around goes around. And that you should treat others how you would want to be treated yourself.

I have great respect for everybody that posts and your own opinions and beliefs. I like to think that respect is recipriocated ( sp ) but it seems like its not always the case. I dont like to impose my will or beliefs, I also feel that certain subjects are not suitbale for discussion within IB. U rated to me means that you dont discuss things that those of us who are blesseed in having children would not want those children to read or discuss or read about until such time that they have gained relevant life experience in order to deal with said subject in an adult and respectful manner.

I also believe that we live in a nanny state and shy away from issues that I think we should be able to talk about or discuss with fear of reprisal or Political Correctness or lack of common sense being shown.

Posted as me and my opinion rather than as a moderator.

Fizz

Fizz..That was a damn fine post.Well done you.

I can confirm certainly that one particular valued member of the forum took what was being said in recent days as the last straw and has now decided to avoid the forum. This is a great shame as the individual in question not only brought a lot of intelligence, but no small amount of wit to the forum also.


The recent controversial thread I chose not to comment on purely because there was so much being said on there that was just so wrong in so many ways.

Originally Posted by northwind

Hmm... Difficult one isn't it?

Naming no names of course But it seems to me that a lot of the forum has problems with one person that's seen as excessively annoying, and think it's reasonable to respond to their irritation with out and out abuse and unpleasantness. I think one of the mods is clearly in that group, and it actually serves to make things even worse.

But. That's not to criticise the way this site is run- I'd like to think it doesn't take much intervention, this place is utterly brilliant most of the time.

fearing a nasty come back (lack of freedom of speach on here without personal attacks being present at some point) i feel i must dissagree with the above post. i believe anyone should be able to give their honest opinion about any subject and not fear that people may then follow up with personal attacks. even though people may not meet each other from here, personal attacks can still result in animosity and hurt feelings! there is no need for it, no matter how irritating you feel it might be. the job is then left to the moderators to do something about posts that are out of place or out of order. im guilty of this also at times, and wanted to shoot myself in the foot for it.

But when an appoligy is then shot down like peoples have been. thats out of order!

[northwind]

Originally Posted by socommk23

fearing a nasty come back (lack of freedom of speach on here without personal attacks being present at some point) i feel i must dissagree with the above post.

Eh, you just agreed with me Though I draw a line- I'd say you should be able to give your opinion, as long as it's not "In my opinion, you're a ****.". And like Fizz, I agree that some topics just aren't suitable for discussion here, bearing in mind the U rating (which I know some hate, but frankly, they can deal with it) But most importantly, I agree with Fizz that drawing that line is incredibly hard.

I've not been on for a while as im sure youll know. Whats happened the last few days there seems to be so much anger and i dunno "feeling" on the forums.