Electric Cars

[NTECUK]

We have some 60+k leaf's that have lost very little range even then you can get the individual cells replaced.
They are just so reliable it's amazing.
Not sure if the new leaf will share any Renault Tec.
That's the only worry.

[SV650rules]

Problem with buying an BEV is that the depreciation is huge, so may be better to lease. It seems that the makers have not allowed for models to be retrofitted with larger batteries and as the tech improves cars with smaller batteries rapidly lose their value. Look at at second hand Leaf prices.

[L3nny]

Originally Posted by SV650rules

Problem with buying an BEV is that the depreciation is huge, so may be better to lease. It seems that the makers have not allowed for models to be retrofitted with larger batteries and as the tech improves cars with smaller batteries rapidly lose their value. Look at at second hand Leaf prices.

The old I3 can be retrofitted with the newer battery packs apparently, unfortunately UK dealers refuse to do it apparently.
Looks like the depreciation charges have pushed up the lease prices. An I3 is about 200 a month more than a diesel 1 series. About what I would pay on diesel

[L3nny]

So the longer trips I had this weekend were a nightmare. It seems the infrastructure is a long way off where it needs to be. I will put a full write up tomorrow but as great as the I3 is, I won't be buying one just yet.

[embee]

Very interesting vid on the cell/pack technology in use today and where we're heading
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7GR5fERXNY

[Luckypants]

Originally Posted by SV650rules

Problem with buying an BEV is that the depreciation is huge, so may be better to lease.

Our current plan is to lease our next car (probably diesel) as I expect EVs to make huge strides in the next few years and don't want to be left with a huge depreciation loos - although similar concerns seem to be pushing up lease prices.

When the time comes for replacement we will re-evaluate the electric option.

[Luckypants]

Originally Posted by L3nny

So the longer trips I had this weekend were a nightmare. It seems the infrastructure is a long way off where it needs to be. I will put a full write up tomorrow but as great as the I3 is, I won't be buying one just yet.

Look forward to the full write up.

[embee]

The discussions about the Tesla truck unit announced recvently have been interesting too. http://www.enginetechnologyinternati...p?NewsID=88394
There's a bit of a critique here http://driving.ca/tesla/auto-news/ne...t-teslas-truck
I did a fag packet sum and I agree with the conclusion that a typical artic needs 1000kW.hr of energy for a 500ml range (based on typical fuel used and calorific value/efficiency etc). The batteries and their weight is one aspect, but the charging issue is mind boggling.
1000kW.hr or 1 megawatt.hr is huge energy. Even if you charged it over 8hrs, a truck park with say 80 vehicles would need 10megawatts of power, to put that into context a typical UK nuclear power station runs at 500MW. Basically truck parks will need power stations.

[punyXpress]

500 miles range sounds impressive in this septic isle, but in the States, which I assume the item relates to, it wouldn't get you into the next state

[L3nny]

At the weekend the plan was, make sure the car had a full charge Saturday morning. Go from MK to the bike show at the NEC (58 miles) then head over to my mate's house on the oxfordshire/gloucestershire border near Chipping Norton (45 miles), stay at my mate's Saturday night. On Sunday morning drive to the Malverns to do some climbing, (44 miles) back to my mate's to drop him off (44 miles) then back home (46 miles) a total of 237 miles or in the 320d,less than half a tank.
The plan was to drive as I notmally would and try and complete the whole trip on electric power alone and not use the range extender.
In anticipation of the trip I knew I would need 100% charge so all day Friday at work, from 0800-1730 the car was connected to the charger.
The problem with the charger at work however is you can only set it to charge for 2 hours at a time then it needs to be re-started, it only requires a couple of clicks via a website to re-start but it's still a pain and when I am in the middle of something or in a meeting I can't restart the charge missing probably a total of 2 hours over the course of the day.
I plugged the car in with 20% battery left, at the end of the day it was on 85%.
The drive home is 11 miles but I thought I would stop off in central MK at Xscape where they have rapid chargers, grab a cheeky Nandos and alfter 45 mins or so head home.
Now if you've ever been to Xscape on a Friday evening you'll know it gets very busy and this Friday was no exception and all of the 3 rapid chargers were in use. While examining the rapid chargers I noticed you can use them for a maximum of 2 hours, not great if you're heading to the cinema or spending the evening in the bowling alley or ski slope, you'd have to go back out and move the car, not great if you have ski boots on!

Anyway, I found the next nearest charge point, about quarter of a mile away on the sat nav and headed there, when you're searching for a charge point in a busy car park, in the dark, you'll soon notice they are impossible to see and it's not like there are any signs directing you to them so it took a while to find. As part of the deal I get free charging at these particular chargers (polar network) however if I didn't I would have to get a card and pay an £8 a month standing charge then any electricity used on top which sounds a bit silly to me.

I plugged the car in and headed to Nandos, this was not a fast charger an estimated time of 2 hours to full was displayed! I couldn't bear to spend that much time in Nandos so popped into the Casino next door, this whole saving money thing isn't working out very well.

After an hour in the Casino I was £5 down so decided to head back to the car, it was at 100% and showing an electric range of 103 miles, yippee!!

I drove the 2.5 miles home in the most eco efficient way ever and it had actually increased to 110 when I got there. Great! Enough to last all of the way to the NEC then on to my mate's.

I get up Saturday morning bright and early and head onto the M1, I set the cruise control to 75 and all is well. However 10 miles later the range is now dropping a lot quicker than before. The range is now showing as 75 and I'm less than 10 miles in.
I reduce the cruise control to 65 but it still keeps dropping. With 10 miles to go to the NEC the range is now 45 miles, it's still early so I pull into the services to use their quick charger. Again, the location of the charger isn't immedietly obvious but I find it pretty easily and plug it in. In order to use this charger I need to download another app, create an account, register my details save my credit card number in order to kick off the charging. I am advised there is a £3 connection fee then a charge per kw/h. Whatever, I have invested too much time in this to just drive away so I start the charging expecting half a charge to take 20 mins but an expected time of 45 mins appear.
I head into the services and get a Subway, then a coffee, then have a poo. 40 mins have gone by and I'm getting bored so I head back tot he car and 20 miles have been added to to the range. Sat in the car I google slow charging problems ant it looks like the previous borrower of the car had disabled the fast charging option. I re-enable this and swear a lot but I'm bored waiting so I unplug the charger and carry on. Knowing there is no way I'll complete todays drive on electric alone and as there was no charging facilities at the NEC I use the "hold charge" feature of the range extender for the last 10 miles. I stick to 60 on the motorway but the electric range still goes down by a couple of miles.

I was planning on leaving he NEC around 5.30 pm I had to be at my mate's for 7 so I didn't want to charge on the way there, hence the top up before arriving however the bike show wasn't as exciting as I hoped so I left around 3.30, this gave me an extra hour to make the journey so I try and find a charger on the way. I see one near Solihull on the sat nav so pull off the motorway and enter a shopping complex, however I couldn't find it and didn't want to waste more range driving around so go back on the motorway. I put the hold charge back on the range extender and crawl along at 60, this time the electric range stays at a steady 40 so when I get off the motorway I turn it off. The extender had an 80 mile range with a full tank of petrol, but after about 30 miles with it on, it's now dropped to 45. I've still got the
extra hour before my mate gets home so I stop again at another charger 5 miles from his house, the only one around for miles, this requires another app from another company but my mobile phone decided to brick itself in the mean time so I can't download the app. I still have 20 miles left of range so I head to my mates and sit in the car outside his house waiting for him to get home. I drove slowly, knowing I had time to kill so still had 20 miles range when I arrived.

When he gets there we open his garage and, although I have been told not to, we use an extension cable to connect the mains charger for the car, charging starts and we head to the pub.

In the morning I get to the car and it's not charged at all, the extension lead had a breaker in it which tripped so it turns out there is a reason why they tell you not to use extension cables.I plug it directly into the socket after moving the car closer to the garage and this time it actually does charge.

Not being able to use the I3 for the day we take his diesel Mercedes, a good job as otherwise the day would have been a right off. His C220d is a similar price to the I3. It's more comfortable, better equipped and actually quieter when crusing above 60 and I'm thinking, this is a much better way to travel and half the reason I like the I3 is just because it's new and my 320d is 7 years old.

Arriving back to my mate's in the evening the I3 is fully charged and with a 103 mile range and a journey of less than half that I drive it like I stole it all the way home, curiously the range is still showing as 45 miles when I get home which was more than I expected seeing as I used no regen and floored it everywhere, I won every traffic light grand prix though, much to the frustration of a Passatt driver who couldn't believe it when he couldn't get close to me.

With enough charge to make it to work the next day I decide not to charge overnight and take it to work. It took about 3 hours to reach 100% today with the fast charging enabled, about a third of the time it took on Friday.

So most of the problems I had were caused by me, and I wouldn't get these issues again. If the car was set to fast charge and my mobile didn't die, I heeded the warnings about extension cable and I found a working charger at the place we left the car (it was in Ledbury, I've checked, there is a charger, but it's currently broken and anyway, I don't think I could have left the car ther for 10 hours) I would have been able to do the whole trip on electric power alone.

However the faffery and stress it caused me just isn't worth it, if I had 35k to spend on the I3 or the Merc, I'd have to go with the Merc every time, and when I can to sell in 2 years the Merc would be worth 25 and the I3 would be worth 15.

IF you just just do short trips in a city, IF have a second car and IF you can charge at home every night and IF it's a company car so your tax bill is less, then an electrc car makes sense however there are too many problems with the infrastructure at the moment to make it viable as your only car.

Instead of the government subsidising rich people's second or third cars with a £4500 grant, they should be investing this in the infrastructure, there needs to be a uniform connection and payment system so all you do is swipe your credit card and off you go. If the infrastructure improves, more cars will sell and the price of the cars will come down anyway.

Also I don't think anyone has thought of the problems that would arise i electric car sales doubled overnight. There would be queues for chargers everywhere with full cars sat at charge points while the owners are off on their jollies.

I've done about 250 miles in the I3 since I have had it, this would cost about £30 in diesel. If I estimate the cost of the charging at my mates to be around £3 the total I have spent is about £10 on electric so while it's cheaper, it's not cheap enough to make it worth the extra stress, you might like stress so this may not be an issue, you might not be an idiot like me so it won't be an issue. I don't like stress and I am an idiot however.

Anyway, this is just the ramblings of an idiot, your experiences will vary.