Friendly Fire from american planes that killed british troop

Just thought i'd let you know that the video is up on the sun website and here is a link to the article.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007060289,00.html

I have watched the video and can't believe it, but it does contain swearing so you've been warned

[21QUEST]

Unbileveable .

" I think so", "Looks like", "I believe so". So not sure then. Thought the conversation at the end was interesting.

Eyes were moist watching that .



Ben

Dreadful state of affairs, However does anyone think this 'self aggrandising exclusive' of the 'Scum'
Newspaper really helps the situation or just stirs up a Hornets nest?
Don't get me wrong, the American pilots were bloody stupid, but I can't help thinking that this 'scoop'
does more harm than good.

Awfull situation. Seems like the pilots where given bad info, so its not entirly their fault. However, why did they fire at the target (that they beleived to be the enemy) when they wernt given a direct instruction to do so? (at least, I never heard a direct instruction).

And apparently they where never trained to identify coalition forces (I.E us brits).

Quite upsetting to watch, that video.

Matt

Nah I don't agree, I think the video should of been made available to the coroner or the family.
By with holding it and making a scene, sooner or later it will come out and cause controversy.
Which it has.

As for the video its a bit hazy as to what's really going on as we cannot really see what they are really seeing, only the HUD.

Fog of War I'm afraid, they were told no friendlies in area and the Russians do have rocket launchers that have orange rockets on. The pilots were national guardsman ( TA ) and were on their first sortie. I challenge anybody to say they would be calm in that environment for the first time.

Feel sorry for all invloved but its certainly not the first time and won't be the last.

As for the reason of with holding the vidoe due to sensitive info on the HUD............Like what?
A-10 have the same weapons systems for years. Most of that data is replicated in most flying sim games. Not sure if that was just a cop out excuse.

R.I.P All our fallen servicemen.

What struck me was the time for that official sounding abort communication to come through from the British forces via whatever routing it was doing. It was at least a couple of minutes behind the pilots finding out they were friendlies via another link.

Although I never read the Sun unless I am at the barber I think good for them on making it public and keeping the US/UK government on their toes. We get enough bullsh*t from them all.

Dont forget in the first gulf war we lost more troops to a warthog attack than we did to the Iraqis, The American communications with their allies are not the best in the world.
The pilot even told their HQ they had orange flashes on.

H

[northwind]

Originally Posted by alpinestarhero

Awfull situation. Seems like the pilots where given bad info, so its not entirly their fault. However, why did they fire at the target (that they beleived to be the enemy) when they wernt given a direct instruction to do so? (at least, I never heard a direct instruction).

I gather that's normal... They get clearance to fire at opportunity within certain areas... And here, they contacted their ground spotters and had it confirmed that there were no friendly targets within the area. So why scapegoat the pilots? Sad as it is, these things do happen.

What I thought was more interesting about the video is that it blows out of the water all the claims about security risks from releasing it... There's no justification on those grounds to withhold thje information in it.

IMO, the video wasn't released, not due to the HUD, but due to various bits of audio in the video. Now that radio code names are known (eg, "Manilla") they will need to be changed.

That, combined with the embarrassment factor that neither the ground control, or two aircraft, couldn't recognise allies after spending a good few minutes flying around them, would be enough for the Americans to not want to disclose the video. Also, I don't think the Americans wanted to acknowledge that they allow crews to use discresion when in combat. "Do I shoot now & hit the target, or do I wait for authorisation from HQ & possibly miss the target because the window has gone?" In combat, where a delayed reaction could mean the end of your life, I'd prefer the freedom to decide for myself. However, I hasten to add, I wouldn't of fired if I couldn't tell allies from rocket launchers (but that's more a hindsight issue now anyway).

Following the incident, the pilots (and ground control IMO) should of been thrown in jail, but the military "justice" system doesn't work the same way the civil one does. No doubt they were "punished" on the quiet, but not nearly as severely as they would of been in civil law. Also, because they've already received "punishment" I doubt that anything more will happen to them.

Yes, it was wrong to deny the coroner the video, but IMO, if the family had of seen it, it would of been made public knowledge anyway.

The whole incident, and aftermath, is nothing more than a series of minor mistakes, amounting to a major tragedy.

[northwind]

Originally Posted by Baph

IMO, the video wasn't released, not due to the HUD, but due to various bits of audio in the video. Now that radio code names are known (eg, "Manilla") they will need to be changed.

That's what I thought, but they get changed frequently anyway in case of intercepts so that doesn't seem to hold water