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Old 29-03-18, 05:42 PM   #21
maviczap
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Default Re: London not to include motorcycle in it's traffic congestion strategy

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Perhaps if cyclists were a little less inclined to go up the nearside of an HGV that was indicating left they wouldn't need to bail out...... I'm sure there are occasions when some idiot of an HGV driver overtakes a cyclist and then attempts to turn left across them, but such individuals are few and far between compared to the number of cyclists that seem to consider the left hand side of the road theirs and theirs alone and anyone wishing to use it must give way to them under all circumstances.

I was trying to turn left at a roundabout last week and every time I had an opening from the right I couldn't move because of the succession of cyclists that continued to make their way up my nearside, despite an array of nearside indicators and my front wheels being turned to the left. In the end I simply moved slowly forwards, blocking the traffic on the roundabout and eventually taking two of the cyclists left with me, which for some reason they didn't seem to appreciate.......
As a cyclist I really don't understand the death wish mentality of these people on bikes, I don't classify them as cyclists, as cyclist are aware of the dangers of undertaking lorries at junctions, there's been enough coverage of the deaths in the cycling press.

I know what it's like to have a big vehicle run over me, and it's not something I wish to repeat, and no I wasn't undertaking at the time I was 12
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Old 29-03-18, 06:20 PM   #22
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Default Re: London not to include motorcycle in it's traffic congestion strategy

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Unfortunately too many pedestrians and cyclists seem to think highway code does not apply to them, they are under the impression that if they have a mix up with a vehicle that the vehicle will always be a fault.
There's a number of holier than thou cycling fanatics who are pushing for legislation which places motor vehicle drivers automatically at fault for any collision with a cyclist.
Tis lunacy.
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Old 29-03-18, 06:32 PM   #23
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Default Re: London not to include motorcycle in it's traffic congestion strategy

Not so, it's presumed liability and is used in many European countries and places the onus on vehicle drivers to prove that it wasn't their fault. UK is one of the few countries not to use this type of legislation, and it would go someway to improving driving standards and behaviour of motorists in relation to all road users, not just cyclists.
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Old 29-03-18, 10:36 PM   #24
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Default Re: London not to include motorcycle in it's traffic congestion strategy

^^^^ see, its just like I said.
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Old 30-03-18, 03:30 AM   #25
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Default Re: London not to include motorcycle in it's traffic congestion strategy

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..... UK is one of the few countries not to use this type of legislation, and it would go someway to improving driving standards and behaviour of motorists in relation to all road users, not just cyclists.
I'm not generally a fan of statistics but if that is the case explain why it is that we are amongst the safest roads in Europe? I'm all for improving road safety, especially if it involves driver behaviour rather than yet more speed reducing legislation, but bringing in any system that contains a presumption of guilt would be seriously undermining the British justice ethos.
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Old 30-03-18, 07:06 AM   #26
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Default Re: London not to include motorcycle in it's traffic congestion strategy

Statistically there was a 5% increase in cyclists being killed on UK roads in 2016, which was 102 deaths. 77% of those were in 30mph areas.
3142 reported serious injuries to cyclists
57% as a attributed of drivers pulling out, crossing the path is sorry mate I didn't see you
43% were attributed to cyclists being at fault, pulling out, not stopping.at junctions etc
Govt figures
Very few of the deaths resulted in the prosecution of the driver, and if they were few resulted in a custodial sentence or lengthy ban.

To put it into perspective cyclists were held responsible for 25 deaths of pedestrians, but that was over 7 years! So about 2 a year, 2 to many.

But following the Charlie Alliston case where he killed a pedestrian the laws relating to causing death by reckless cycling were to be the same as causing death by dangerous driving which is 14 years, but proposed to increase to life imprisonment!

So after ONE case fuelled by the tabloid hatred of cyclists, the government rush through a review of changes to legislation into dangerous cycling, but hasn't completed any review of improving road safety by addressing the biggest cause of road deaths which are vehicle drivers?

Being labelled as a fanatic for wanting changes to improve my safety on the road when I'm cycling leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but if you cycle you'd know about the regular close passes and bad driving we have to live with, whereas we're always seen to be at fault if there's an accident, not the driver.
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Old 30-03-18, 07:26 AM   #27
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Default Re: London not to include motorcycle in it's traffic congestion strategy

I'm with you on this Mav.

I don't cycle on the roads very often these days but every time I do I'm shocked by the lack of care shown by drivers of all 4 wheeled vehicles towards cyclists. I can guarantee that the majority of overtakes are much too close for comfort, with some being within inches of my elbow. Drivers who are not prepared to sacrifice a few seconds of journey time, and many of whom will try and squeeze past with traffic coming the other way. This is a rural area too, so how it must feel in slightly more urban areas is too terrifying for me to think about.

I find the majority of motorcyclists are much more sympathetic, perhaps because many of them understand the vulnerable nature of two wheeled transport.

If I overtake a cyclist, I will not do it with traffic coming the other way and I will always endeavour to give them a full lane's width of clearance as I find the buffeting caused by overtaking vehicles can be pretty uncomfortable.
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Old 30-03-18, 07:49 AM   #28
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Default Re: London not to include motorcycle in it's traffic congestion strategy

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I'm with you on this Mav.

I don't cycle on the roads very often these days but every time I do I'm shocked by the lack of care shown by drivers of all 4 wheeled vehicles towards cyclists. I can guarantee that the majority of overtakes are much too close for comfort, with some being within inches of my elbow. Drivers who are not prepared to sacrifice a few seconds of journey time, and many of whom will try and squeeze past with traffic coming the other way. This is a rural area too, so how it must feel in slightly more urban areas is too terrifying for me to think about.

I find the majority of motorcyclists are much more sympathetic, perhaps because many of them understand the vulnerable nature of two wheeled transport.

If I overtake a cyclist, I will not do it with traffic coming the other way and I will always endeavour to give them a full lane's width of clearance as I find the buffeting caused by overtaking vehicles can be pretty uncomfortable.
Ireland are in the process of introducing a 1.5 metre passing gap for cyclists on rural roads, 1 metre on urban roads, Spain has had this law for some time. No such legislation being considered here.

Presumed liability on vehicle drivers in my fanatical view would be a good thing, even if it changes the fundamentals of our laws, as the biggest cause of road injuries/deaths aren't being held responsible for their actions. Only the UK, Cyprus, Malta and Romania don't have presumed liability legislation.

Road deaths were up 6% in the year 2016 from the previous year.
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Old 30-03-18, 08:22 AM   #29
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Default Re: London not to include motorcycle in it's traffic congestion strategy

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I find the majority of motorcyclists are much more sympathetic, perhaps because many of them understand the vulnerable nature of two wheeled transport.

If I overtake a cyclist, I will not do it with traffic coming the other way and I will always endeavour to give them a full lane's width of clearance as I find the buffeting caused by overtaking vehicles can be pretty uncomfortable.

It is much easier for a motorbike to get past cyclists without needing to cross the centre line of the road. It does annoy motorists when cyclist groups ride in a block (two or more abreast, talking to each other) I asked some Lycra fanatics I used to work with and they said it makes it easier for vehicles to pass

When I used to cycle quite a bit and I knew that traffic was trying to pass I would pull into the verge and let them through especially on twisting roads where overtaking opportunities were few. Even decent tractor drivers (most of which can do 30mph+ these days) will pull into layby or onto verge to let following vehicles through. I guess also that some driver do not know that they can cross single or double white line to pass slow vehicles like cycles, but double whites are normally on twist bits where overtaking even a cyclist is dangerous.

There are a few considerate cyclists around, but many are not unfortunately and feel they are exempt from rules, and the more expensive their bike and the brighter their Lycra the worse they seem to be.
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Old 30-03-18, 09:30 AM   #30
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Default Re: London not to include motorcycle in it's traffic congestion strategy

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Statistically there was a 5% increase in cyclists being killed on UK roads in 2017

Being labelled as a fanatic for wanting changes to improve my safety on the road when I'm cycling leaves a bad taste in my mouth
Quoting statistics is only legitimate when you quote the source so people can verify your claim.
You say deaths are up 5% but fail to mention how many cycling journeys occured in the two periods during which your reported increase happened.
Using your source of statistics it may well be possible to show that cycling fatalities are reducing.
And it is my suspicion this may be why you have failed to quote your source.

Positive discrimination is still discrimination.
All road users are subject to the same rules of the road and should be treated equally by the legal system.
Anything else is simply unjust in my view.
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