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Old 01-05-18, 03:39 PM   #31
Biker Biggles
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Default Re: The Crash Detectives - a sobering story

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Sometimes, just being a biker is enough to set some people off. A few weeks ago I was on the bike overtaking a queue of slow moving traffic on an A road at rush hour. As I was about to overtake a people carrier, it suddenly swerved right into the oncoming lane to block my pass. Fortunately, I saw the move early enough to brake but had to move into the oncoming lane. Luckily there was no traffic coming towards me otherwise I would have been wiped out.
Thats exactly the kind of behaviour that needs stamping out very firmly. Theres not really any difference between that and killing someone apart from the luck of the draw. If you had fallen off and there had been a car coming the other way that driver could have been looking at a death by dangerous driving charge, but as that didnt happen he is looking at nothing so will probably do it again.
Id like to see better enforcement and a more detailed log kept on driving offences. Anyone caught causing high risk to others gets an endorsement and doing it again results in a ban. You dont get your ticket back until you can demonstrate you are both competant and attitudinally reformed.Some people wont pass that test and wont ever drive again. The message would soon get through that aggressive and provocative driving was no longer tolerated and the roads would be much safer for it. Long prison terms might make us feel collectively better but only proper enforcement will make any difference.
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Old 01-05-18, 04:21 PM   #32
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Default Re: The Crash Detectives - a sobering story

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If you are on a bike, being chased by an irate driver, it is very difficult to get yourself into a safe position unless you have the power to boot it and literally run away. You cannot safely slow down because they will then catch you.

The only other option is to let them get close, then quickly change lanes and hammer the brakes and let them fly past, but then what? They can stop as well.....

I do not see how either of them could have "stopped that situation in an instant"? Sure, if he had been on a Busa and it was dry and clear, he would be long gone, but in the circumstances I suspect he was trapped.

I really feel like you are trying to attribute some blame to the biker, when he was the more vulnerable one who ended up dead.

I know where you are coming from, trying to understand exactly what happened so maybe it wont ever happen to you, and that is exactly what I do whenever I see footage of an accident.

But, making guesses and then concluding the biker was in some way to blame, oversteps the mark in my book.

The driver was a scroat who did everything he could to avoid justice, he did many things wrong and deserved everything he got, and more.
I'd be happy to discuss tactical options and defensive riding if you like, and it sounds as if you've already pretty much identified what the options are. Plenty of suggestion on here about giving it large and accelerating away, but firstly I don't think he had that option and secondly all that does is increase the risk and potential consequences, not reduce it. It might work in heavy traffic where you can get through cleanly without great speed but I certainly wouldn't recommend it on a dark wet motorway, whatever you are riding. That as you say leaves the option of slowing, which is easily done, right down to a standstill on the hard shoulder if necessary. This leaves you the ultimate option of getting away from your bike and the carriageway and into a position where he can't get anywhere near you. Nine times out of ten slowing and withdrawing yourself from the situation is all that is needed, the other party goes on their way satisfied with their "victory" and you live to fight another day. The problem is egos get in the way of common sense, the very lack of thought that got you into the situation prevents you from getting out if it.

From experience I can tell you that knocking somebody off a motorcycle is incredibly easy to do, and I should know because I've done it numerous times. It's almost as easy to push them into falling off themselves if you've got the time and space to do it.
I've also been on the other end of that shoe and had quite determined villains trying to knock me off. You will never win if you stay anywhere near them, it's only a question of time.

Oh and stop trying to suggest I'm laying blame against the motorcyclist. Blame is for fools and those trying to make money. I'm only interested in cause and how incidents can be prevented. Suggesting someone cannot be involved in the cause of an incident or have contributed to it's prevention simply because they subsequently became the victim is just plain daft. You can stay on your bandwagon if you want but just ask yourself what it will achieve?
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Old 01-05-18, 07:30 PM   #33
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Default Re: The Crash Detectives - a sobering story

This is why I sometimes despair of bikers who fit the loudest pipes they can to their bike, I have seen 'for track use only' pipes on road bikes. The public has a low enough opinion of bikers as it is, making the bike louder than a Jumbo jet taking off only adds to our existing PR problem.

I don't know what you have to do using a vehicle in UK to get full 14 years, presumably what you are doing needs to be classed as 'terrorism' or 'racially aggravated' in which case breaking someones leg with a vehicle will get you 30 years.
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Last edited by SV650rules; 01-05-18 at 07:33 PM.
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Old 02-05-18, 08:22 AM   #34
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Default Re: The Crash Detectives - a sobering story

The sentences are a joke, a few years back a guy from Kent killed a 16 yo girl on a scooter in Bournemouth.

He got the car repaired and told a string of lies to everyone involved.

He got less time for death by careless driving than he did for perverting the course of justice.

Oh he was also disqualified and no insurance.

Total sentence was 6 years

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Old 02-05-18, 10:00 AM   #35
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Default Re: The Crash Detectives - a sobering story

I am no more on a bandwagon, than you are Red Herring. I think we sort of agree, but are struggling with the downsides communicating via a forum.

Your suggestion of stopping the bike and ultimately getting off is a good one, not sure I would want to leave one of my precious babies in the hands of a p!ssed off lunatic!
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Old 02-05-18, 11:44 AM   #36
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Default Re: The Crash Detectives - a sobering story

When I watched this, I thought there for the grace of your god go all of us. Most if not all experienced bikers will have at some time in their lives experienced a motorist who takes exception to something we do. I remember one Friday about 2pm sat in a car in a queue near Russell Square as I was fighting my way home from a meeting in Holborn. In front of me sat at a temporary red light was a transit van. As a courier passed me on the outside and tried to pass the van an arm came out with what looked like a piece of wood and gave him a great whack. Bike/rider ended up in a heap.
The rider gets up and attempts to remonstrate with the driver who I can hear saying I have had enough of you lot, it is time you waited in the queues like the rest of us! Of course the rider wasn't interested, and attempted to get the driver out of the locked door and eventually resorted to picking up a length of piping (guess that was why the temp lights) and attacked the van. Along come plod who are not interested in the rights/wrongs and drag the two to the side of the road for a talking to, and shift his van so we can continue on our way.
But may times filtering, have I seen drivers who do see me approach and for every 10 that make room for me, 1 will try to stop me!
So we know you do not need to do anything, if a driver is in a bad mood and the red mist descends there does not need to be provocation, it is then how to safely diffuse the situation. Assuming he is not directly behind, Bikes will generally stop more efficiently than cars. So grab a big handful and let him get on his way. Not a good idea to swing across his path to head for the hard shoulder though!

These days I ride with a camera for my own protection should I have a coming together with a numpty. But ideally the numpties should already have been identified and re-educated. But when you read of drivers with 30+ convictions flouting bans/insurance etc. Sometimes they need to be locked up for the safety of other road users, not given another meaningless ban.
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Old 02-05-18, 01:29 PM   #37
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Default Re: The Crash Detectives - a sobering story

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These days I ride with a camera for my own protection
Be aware that camera footage can just as easily expose your own misdemeanours...
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Old 04-05-18, 03:55 PM   #38
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Default Re: The Crash Detectives - a sobering story

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Originally Posted by SV650rules View Post
This is why I sometimes despair of bikers who fit the loudest pipes they can to their bike, I have seen 'for track use only' pipes on road bikes. The public has a low enough opinion of bikers as it is, making the bike louder than a Jumbo jet taking off only adds to our existing PR problem.
So much this! Riding a bike doesn't give you license to be an antisocial *****.

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Originally Posted by SV650rules View Post
I don't know what you have to do using a vehicle in UK to get full 14 years, presumably what you are doing needs to be classed as 'terrorism' or 'racially aggravated' in which case breaking someones leg with a vehicle will get you 30 years.
A guy in London's just been given 23 years for ramming a scooter and killing the pillion. Incidentally, although not entirely, the scooter riders were being antisocial *****s. See point one.
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Old 04-05-18, 05:33 PM   #39
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Default Re: The Crash Detectives - a sobering story

TBF that driver did also beat the guy to death as he lay on the road having ploughed into him with a Mustang following a chase through traffic and on pavements.
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Old 07-05-18, 01:56 PM   #40
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Default Re: The Crash Detectives - a sobering story

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Totally agree. IMHO more roads police are needed (and just more in general), but I also believe that the consequences of being caught should be significant. I know for a fact there are folks around here who DO drink and drive because there is practically no chance of them being caught.
People would need to stop voting for the country's number 1 public service despising political party. 30'000 Police and PCO's down since 2010... and counting
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