Help! Don't get the law on towing... - SV650.org

PyroUK · 30-07-14, 07:01 PM

Hey org!

Trying to work out what the first option under 1997+ pass is here:
https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/d...at-you-can-tow

Am I reading it right that, if the total towed weight is under 750kg, you can have a vehicle up to 3500kg?

Trying to get 3 guys plus gear and bikes with a trailer somewhere but so far I have only been able to find a single or double can hilux with a towbar.

Seems no rental places local to me have towbars on smaller cars!

Cheers!

DJ123 · 30-07-14, 07:17 PM

Why not hire a luton van instead? Much easier than towing, and you will have more room.

PyroUK · 30-07-14, 07:21 PM

Not 100% keen on van, it would be easier but it's not just me and we can all agree on a trailer lol

Wideboy · 30-07-14, 07:44 PM

trailer and load cannot exceed 750kg and the combined weight of the car+trailer+ trailer load+car load=cannot exceed 3500.

basically if you get taken to a weigh station, weighed and it all comes over 3500kg.. You're ****ed

you'll be hard pushed to get a trailer and three bikes weighing under 750kg IMO

Red Herring · 30-07-14, 07:59 PM

OK, firstly you need to understand the difference between what it actually weighs, and MAM. MAM is the heaviest it's allowed to be, not what it actually weighs at the time you are stopped and it's on the vehicle build plate (under the bonnet or just inside the door).

At the moment you are allowed to drive a vehicle up to 3500kg MAM, so most cars and Transit sized goods vehicles etc. If you want to put a trailer on the back of your 3500kg Transit then it mustn't have a MAM over 750kg (so you can't tow a car trailer even if it's empty). As a rough guide any trailer with brakes is usually over 750kg because that's the cut off weight for getting away without them. I've got a three bike trailer that just goes under, but it's designed for three dirt bikes, not three Goldwings.....

If you do want to tow a trailer with a MAM over 750kg then you need to look at the MAM of the tow vehicle and add it to the MAM of the trailer, and the total mustn't be over 3500kg. Basically this set up is quite rare to find, I think the only time I found it was a bloke pulling a small road roller with his Astra Van.

Good luck......

Quick edit as I've just realized you are on a post 97 licence, if the MAM of the trailer is over 750kg then it's the actual weight of the tow car, ie: what it actually weighs when you are driving it (with your three passengers) that counts, not the MAM. You can see why they changed it to the MAM for later licence holders!

PyroUK · 30-07-14, 08:43 PM

Argh!!

Ok what about the second part, it doesn't mention vehicle mam? Just total weight..

Red Herring · 30-07-14, 09:03 PM

Hence my last edit when I realized you were a post 97 licence rather than a Jan 13 one.

The problem with the 97 legislation was that it relied on the driver knowing how much the tow vehicle actually weighs, which lets face it is virtually impossible unless you find a friendly copper who will take you to a nearby weighbridge, which hardly seemed fair!

If you want to tow a trailer with three bikes on it then if it's a reasonably well built trailer, and you put three 200kg odd bikes on it which covers things like SVs and such like, then allow about 800-900kg for the all up weight of the trailer. This leaves you in the region of 2500kg for the tow vehicle with you and your mates in it.
Most 4x4s come in between 2000kg to 2500kg so don't plan on using anything like that. A reasonable size saloon car like a Mondeo or similar is about 1500kg so if you get something like that to tow with you should be OK.

PyroUK · 30-07-14, 09:05 PM

Ah yes, sorry didn't see the edit! Phew!!

Thought we were completely scuppered!!

BanannaMan · 30-07-14, 09:15 PM

"Any trailer weighing over 750 kilograms, including its load, must have a working brake system."

Same in the US.
2 bikes you can do but you'll need a 2 axle trailer with brakes to haul 3 bikes.

Wideboy · 30-07-14, 09:30 PM

I was told wrong then when I was towing

I was told I couldn't tow a combined weight over 750kg for the trailer and the overall weight of car and trailer couldn't exceed 3500kg. I was also told anything over 750kg had to be braked but you weren't allowed to tow a braked trailer unless you took a test. That was from someone supposed to be a traffic plod.

I gave up towing because I couldn't be arsed with the hassle.

30-07-14, 07:01 PM	#1
PyroUK Member Mega Poster Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Poole Posts: 1,083	Help! Don't get the law on towing... Hey org! Trying to work out what the first option under 1997+ pass is here: https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/d...at-you-can-tow Am I reading it right that, if the total towed weight is under 750kg, you can have a vehicle up to 3500kg? Trying to get 3 guys plus gear and bikes with a trailer somewhere but so far I have only been able to find a single or double can hilux with a towbar. Seems no rental places local to me have towbars on smaller cars! Cheers! __________________ 2011 Triumph Daytona 675, Arrow exhaust and QS!

30-07-14, 07:17 PM	#2
DJ123 Member Mega Poster Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Somewhere over there Posts: 3,245	Re: Help! Don't get the law on towing... Why not hire a luton van instead? Much easier than towing, and you will have more room. __________________ BMW F800ST

30-07-14, 07:21 PM	#3
PyroUK Member Mega Poster Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Poole Posts: 1,083	Help! Don't get the law on towing... Not 100% keen on van, it would be easier but it's not just me and we can all agree on a trailer lol __________________ 2011 Triumph Daytona 675, Arrow exhaust and QS!

30-07-14, 07:44 PM	#4
Wideboy Evel Knievel Mega Poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Eastleigh Posts: 4,641	Re: Help! Don't get the law on towing... trailer and load cannot exceed 750kg and the combined weight of the car+trailer+ trailer load+car load=cannot exceed 3500. basically if you get taken to a weigh station, weighed and it all comes over 3500kg.. You're **ed you'll be hard pushed to get a trailer and three bikes weighing under 750kg IMO __________________ 05 DRZ400E** RIP hovis

30-07-14, 07:59 PM	#5
Red Herring Member Mega Poster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,708	Re: Help! Don't get the law on towing... OK, firstly you need to understand the difference between what it actually weighs, and MAM. MAM is the heaviest it's allowed to be, not what it actually weighs at the time you are stopped and it's on the vehicle build plate (under the bonnet or just inside the door). At the moment you are allowed to drive a vehicle up to 3500kg MAM, so most cars and Transit sized goods vehicles etc. If you want to put a trailer on the back of your 3500kg Transit then it mustn't have a MAM over 750kg (so you can't tow a car trailer even if it's empty). As a rough guide any trailer with brakes is usually over 750kg because that's the cut off weight for getting away without them. I've got a three bike trailer that just goes under, but it's designed for three dirt bikes, not three Goldwings..... If you do want to tow a trailer with a MAM over 750kg then you need to look at the MAM of the tow vehicle and add it to the MAM of the trailer, and the total mustn't be over 3500kg. Basically this set up is quite rare to find, I think the only time I found it was a bloke pulling a small road roller with his Astra Van. Good luck...... Quick edit as I've just realized you are on a post 97 licence, if the MAM of the trailer is over 750kg then it's the actual weight of the tow car, ie: what it actually weighs when you are driving it (with your three passengers) that counts, not the MAM. You can see why they changed it to the MAM for later licence holders! Last edited by Red Herring; 30-07-14 at 08:06 PM.

30-07-14, 08:43 PM	#6
PyroUK Member Mega Poster Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Poole Posts: 1,083	Help! Don't get the law on towing... Argh!! Ok what about the second part, it doesn't mention vehicle mam? Just total weight.. __________________ 2011 Triumph Daytona 675, Arrow exhaust and QS!

30-07-14, 09:03 PM	#7
Red Herring Member Mega Poster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,708	Re: Help! Don't get the law on towing... Hence my last edit when I realized you were a post 97 licence rather than a Jan 13 one. The problem with the 97 legislation was that it relied on the driver knowing how much the tow vehicle actually weighs, which lets face it is virtually impossible unless you find a friendly copper who will take you to a nearby weighbridge, which hardly seemed fair! If you want to tow a trailer with three bikes on it then if it's a reasonably well built trailer, and you put three 200kg odd bikes on it which covers things like SVs and such like, then allow about 800-900kg for the all up weight of the trailer. This leaves you in the region of 2500kg for the tow vehicle with you and your mates in it. Most 4x4s come in between 2000kg to 2500kg so don't plan on using anything like that. A reasonable size saloon car like a Mondeo or similar is about 1500kg so if you get something like that to tow with you should be OK.

30-07-14, 09:05 PM	#8
PyroUK Member Mega Poster Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Poole Posts: 1,083	Help! Don't get the law on towing... Ah yes, sorry didn't see the edit! Phew!! Thought we were completely scuppered!! __________________ 2011 Triumph Daytona 675, Arrow exhaust and QS!

30-07-14, 09:15 PM	#9
BanannaMan Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Appalachia Posts: 419	Re: Help! Don't get the law on towing... "Any trailer weighing over 750 kilograms, including its load, must have a working brake system." Same in the US. 2 bikes you can do but you'll need a 2 axle trailer with brakes to haul 3 bikes. __________________ ...Bill *"The Mountains are calling and I must go"*

30-07-14, 09:30 PM	#10
Wideboy Evel Knievel Mega Poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Eastleigh Posts: 4,641	Re: Help! Don't get the law on towing... I was told wrong then when I was towing I was told I couldn't tow a combined weight over 750kg for the trailer and the overall weight of car and trailer couldn't exceed 3500kg. I was also told anything over 750kg had to be braked but you weren't allowed to tow a braked trailer unless you took a test. That was from someone supposed to be a traffic plod. I gave up towing because I couldn't be arsed with the hassle. __________________ 05 DRZ400E RIP hovis Last edited by Wideboy; 30-07-14 at 09:31 PM.

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