Been to a new mechanic... (!!!essay warning!!!)

Needed my front wheel bearings changed asap so went to a mechanic i'd not used before 'A'. While I was there he made quite a few comments that surprised me and contradicted the advice usually given on this forum.

I trust my regular mechanic 'B' and am happy with the work he does (I chose to use him over an official dealer on a brand new bike) but this new mechanic basically ripped him to shreds.

'A' showed me the front axel pinch bolt that was completely dry, he said it should be greased as part of any service or any time the wheel comes out. My wheel has been out several times at 'B' (for tyre changes, etc.) as well as regular services.

'A' showed me my front calipers and said they were dry and would sieze. I told him I had copper greased everything I should when I changed the pads about 4 months ago. He said you shouldn't use copper grease (!) but when I asked what he used he wouldn't tell me. He also said people shouldn't really service their own bikes as it wasn't the same as having it done by a 'trained professional'. He then asked if that sounded arrogant. (yes!)

'A' asked when it had last been serviced (it was 2 weeks ago) and said my current mechanic should have spotted that they need replacing then. He said he would always remove the wheels to check the bearings properly.

He spotted my scottoiler and said they were crap (!) as they only lubricate point on the run of the chain and that if I was going to use one I should apply oil to the outside run and side plates at regular intervals.


My current dealer 'B' (a fairly slick, reliable operation) charges:

£79.99 for a minor service - plugs, oil, filters, general check and lube everything

£179.99 for full service - all above, balancing carbs/throttle bodies, checking valve clearances. Wether the valves need adjusting or not you pay the same.

The above include std consumables, shims, etc.


The new mech 'B' (lives under a railway arch and wasn't even there when I showed up to have my bearings done, he forgot I was coming and then removed the bearings to find he didn't have the replacements and had to send out for them) charges:

£150 for a service (inc. checking valve clearances) with £50 extra if the valves need adjusting.
For this he says will adjust and lube absolutely everything and treat the bike 'as if it was his own'. He claims I will be able to tell the difference as every thing work as new (it might be worth mentioning that he maintains bikes for GMP)

Inc. standard consumables.


I guess my questions are:

Does anyone know what the magic alternative for copper grease is?

Has 'B' been ripping me off? £79.99 is a bit rich if he is literally changing the oil and filter and giving the keys back. And should he have spotted the bearing needed doing (I did a trackday the day after - before and during it felt really good but after I could instantly tell something wasn't right with the front end. Could a trackday 'finish off' a set of bearings).

Is 'A' full of ****! He was laying the sales pitch on pretty thick, hoping to gain a new customer I guess but the sight of dry bolts have made me doubt my usual mechanic (I always grease any bolt I remove). I would be hurt if my usual guy had been ripping me off as I trusted him, recommended him to other people and have spent a lot of money there.

Apologies for the length (the first and probably the last time i'll say that)

Lots of questions for you guys to go at.

I didn't want to put the names in, PM me if you want to know.

Thanks in advance.

[Biker Biggles]

Just goes to show there's a range of different opinions on everything,but FWIW I'd say your new bloke is wrong about Scottoilers and right about copper grease.There is special brake grease you can get that does'nt damage seals.
I'm also surprised by the price of the service including shims.Checking them is easy,but having to actually change them and re shim is a difficult time consuming job.Charging the same for both seems odd.

I was surprised at the way they charge too. They say they gain money on some, lose on others. I suppose it is helpful to know how much it will be wether the shims need changing or not.

sounds to me like you already know the answer to this, if you trust the guy you usually go with, he does a good job and he charges a fair price, thats as good as it gets.
I am a sales rep, and a proper rep will give you good advice, and unless they are particularly awful will never bad mouth the competition, sounds like he is doing a sales pitch very badly.
bearings usually wear over a period of time, but can colapse very quickly, happened to a mate twice in a month on a dirt bike, but turned out he needed a third bearing - bike had only ever had two since he`d owned it.
as for the copper slip, `i`m no expert but everyone else uses it, if he won`t tell you what hes using, don`t let him use it. same with bolts, i use locktight , not grease, if its critical.
A local garage to me was MOT`ing my car, and got the right hump when i wanted to do the work needed myself. since then I`ve used another garage, who were not only happy for me to do the work but gave advice on how to do it, and where to get the bits - since recommended these guys to a number of friends who used 1st garage. I prefer to use people who act professionally.
in short mechanic 1 gets my vote!!

[MrMessy]

Copper slip apparently can cause the brake seals to swell. You should use rubber grease.

Hmm this guy under the railway arches sounds familiar. Whn I needed the valve clearances done on my 'blade I went to see him. He spent half an hour ripping into me about "people who think they're smarter than Mr Honda by modifying their own bikes."
He was quite a large bloke and most of his breakfast was still in his beard. Just as I was about to say something he sauntered off to answer the phone. I could hear most of that conversation, more of how he was clever and everybody else was stupid.
I put my helmet on and rode to halfwits and bought a Haynes manual...

[Sid Squid]

We've been here before and there is obviously room for differing opinions, taken in no particular order:

Scottoilers: Work. End of.
Clearly an oily rag wiped along the outer surfaces of the chain will stop the plates corroding and is thus a good move, but to say you should oil the outer run could be considered excessive.

Brakes: If there has been on this forum the suggestion that you should use copper grease on the hydraulics of your brakes then I've missed it, I've never suggested this and if I'd seen it written I'd have countered immediately. The subject of red rubber grease has been done to death a number of times, copper grease should go on the backs of the pads and where the pad contacts the caliper only. No magic required

Greasing Spindles: Is good practice plain and simple, but if it came out smoothly and has at least a smear of grease on it, then that's the right amount already. Very few parts of your bike benefit from being assembled 'dry', but then slathering grease everywhere excessively brings it's own troubles too.

Greasing Other Things: Don't overdo it, many people, (including some 'professionals'), use too much, some parts for instance should be very sparingly lubricated only, the torque figures given will be much altered if friction is significantly reduced by lubrication.

Bearings: On a full service I would expect the wheels removed and, if they're not sealed, the bearings greased. Saying that as they are damaged now, they must have been two weeks ago is going a bit far, there will be a first time at which it is possible to notice play in the bearing, was that time less than two weeks ago? Unfair at least.

Servicing: If you don't know what you're doing, don't. But then there are plenty of jobs the average owner will be well capable of doing.

[timwilky]

I agree with Sid, nobody would ever suggest using copper grease on anything but the rear of pads, I also use it on the pins simply to stop the siezing, normal Molybdenum disulphate based grease on surfaces designed to move such as bearings (Not sealed). Never on a thread.

To be honest, I don't think anyone who critises the work of others has any right to call themselves professionally trained. If he had had a professional attitude he would have said "I recommend that if you should do your brakes in future, you use xyz etc".

By dry I assume you refer to within gaiters over the float pins of the caliper, these I normally coat with molybdenum disulphate grease on a overhaul.

I don't class myself as a professionally trained mechanic. I served an engineering technicians apprenticeship with Leyland Trucks before I did my Mech Eng Degree. I was doing full engine rebuilds at age 17, I have also worked with a number of racing teams on formula Atlantic, Formula 5000 and Chevrons B31s. The guys I worked with, I class as professional mechanics. None of these guys would ever slag off another, simply say I do this and why.

[timwilky]

I agree with Sid, nobody would ever suggest using copper grease on anything but the rear of pads, I also use it on the pins simply to stop the siezing, normal Molybdenum disulphate based grease on surfaces designed to move such as bearings (Not sealed). Never on a thread.

To be honest, I don't think anyone who critises the work of others has any right to call themselves professionally trained. If he had had a professional attitude he would have said "I recommend that if you should do your brakes in future, you use xyz etc".

By dry I assume you refer to within gaiters over the float pins of the front calipers, these I normally coat with molybdenum disulphate grease on a overhaul.

I have also worked with a number of racing teams on formula Atlantic, Formula 5000 and Chevrons B31s. The guys I worked with, I class as professional mechanics. None of these guys would ever slag off another, simply say I do this and why.

Originally Posted by Razor

Hmm this guy under the railway arches sounds familiar. Whn I needed the valve clearances done on my 'blade I went to see him. He spent half an hour ripping into me about "people who think they're smarter than Mr Honda by modifying their own bikes."
He was quite a large bloke and most of his breakfast was still in his beard. Just as I was about to say something he sauntered off to answer the phone. I could hear most of that conversation, more of how he was clever and everybody else was stupid.
I put my helmet on and rode to halfwits and bought a Haynes manual...

Absolutely spot on with the description.

Just to confirm, I copper grease backs of pads, pins and caliper bolts only. This guy was suggesting I (well, he) use something else on these parts.

I know copper grease and rubber don't mix.

And the spindle was fine, just the pinch bolt was dry.