Decent article about countersteering

http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?...g_ga_2101.html

Just looked at article after, anatomy of a corner, and am very worried by their "right line". Unless they are talking about on a racing track, then why the white line?
Going that close to the white line on a blind 90 degree corner is asking to be wiped out by a car going slightly too fast and drifting over.

[johnnyrod]

I have read countless countersteering threads, so I get a bit pedantic about it. Gyroscopic forces have nothing to do with countersteering. As for the throttle balancing the bike's wish to fall up or down, I think that's tosh too, it's what you do with the steering that determines it, the action of the throttle/brakes is there but it's not the main thing. Try this which seems to come at it from all angles:
http://forums.superbikeschool.com/in...?showtopic=686
Sorry if I sound whiny, it's a soap box!

Originally Posted by johnnyrod

I have read countless countersteering threads, so I get a bit pedantic about it. Gyroscopic forces have nothing to do with countersteering.

Yup, the bike wanting to go straight on when the bars are turned is most of what causes it to lean - which is why the bike doesn't flop straight onto it's side when the wheel is turned to full lock when bike is on the back wheel.

Just found this link via that site above - amazing the lengths people will go to but proves once and for all that gyroscopes have nowt to do with it!
http://www.losethetrainingwheels.org...px?Lev=2&ID=34

A bike wants to follow a straight line due to the gyroscopic effects of the wheels which due to there weight on a motorbike are significant, to get the bike to turn you have to redirect these forces to enable the bike to lean and turn! If gyroscopics have nothing to do with it then why does a stationary bike want to tip over unless you hold it up yet a moving one doesnt?? Also why is it that the faster you go the more the bike wants to follow a straight line??

Gyroscopic precision

Whilst you counter steer, gyroscopic forces are the force you steer against. The gyroscopic force that's created by the 2 wheels wants to have the bike upright. If you should fall or jump off (Please don't try this), the bike will lift itself back up to a 90-degree angle an continue in a straight line until it hits an obstacle, or the speed is to slow in which case it will make a sharp turn, then drop to the floor. This is because of the 90-degree lateral force created by the forward motion. You might notice that the greater your speed, the greater force is needed to counter steer. But this is necessary to have a stable ride. Stability does not only come from the gyroscopic force, but also from the Trail!

taken from that article proving countersteering has everything to do with gyros.

Originally Posted by mototech

Gyroscopic precision

Whilst you counter steer, gyroscopic forces are the force you steer against. The gyroscopic force that's created by the 2 wheels wants to have the bike upright. If you should fall or jump off (Please don't try this), the bike will lift itself back up to a 90-degree angle an continue in a straight line until it hits an obstacle, or the speed is to slow in which case it will make a sharp turn, then drop to the floor. This is because of the 90-degree lateral force created by the forward motion. You might notice that the greater your speed, the greater force is needed to counter steer. But this is necessary to have a stable ride. Stability does not only come from the gyroscopic force, but also from the Trail!

taken from that article proving countersteering has everything to do with gyros.

What you have written suggests only that gyroscopic forces resist the bike turning - nothing to show that they are the prime mover in making it lean. The '90 lateral force' i think is centripetal force only wanting to stand the bike up. The link I posted shows an experiment which directly disproves the gyrocopic theory - what do you think of the that bike with 4 wheels?

And - please explain how a wheelying bike which are frequently shown with the front wheel cocked right over does not slam onto it's side on the ground if gyroscopic forces are so prominent? A bike with both wheels on the floor with this amount of steering lock on certainly would.

Originally Posted by mototech

A bike wants to follow a straight line due to the gyroscopic effects of the wheels which due to there weight on a motorbike are significant, to get the bike to turn you have to redirect these forces to enable the bike to lean and turn! If gyroscopics have nothing to do with it then why does a stationary bike want to tip over unless you hold it up yet a moving one doesnt?? Also why is it that the faster you go the more the bike wants to follow a straight line??

This is my opinion.

In lay terms, try locking the steering and see if it is any easier to stay upright when in motion than when stationary. I bet you'll find it's about the same, very difficult.

This is because we make slight adjustments in steering to compensate for imbalance and in most cases it's involuntary. It has nothing to do with gyro effects. It's more of an inertia thing. This is what I sumise.

You can push a bicycle on its own and it will ride on its own because of inertia (the tendancy for a body to remain in motion) making automatic or involuntary steering adjustments for balance until friction slows the bike and it falls due to gravity. If you lock the steering it can not make these adjustments and it will fall much earlier.

This is my opinion and I'm in favour of the non gyroscopic bike article.