Re: Weird idea for motorcycle design
 

About the downforce generated, I gotta say, I don't really know about that.. I mean, I've seen the formula for it, but I can't really estimate what it would turn up to.. But come on, the F1 guys get to something like 5-6 lateral g, while the tires on bikes can withstand something like 1-1.1 g at most (I think.. not sure). And the difference is exactly in the downforces generated and the contact patch size (relative to the actual weight).
Maybe we won't get 5-6g's, but how about 2?

Re: Weird idea for motorcycle design
 

your saying the wing tilts so to continue to produce downwards which in theory is only going to push bike lower into the corner causing it to lean to much into the corner or maybe just cause a lowside

bikes are already designed to make them fast as stated about to 'busa, many other bikes have means to keep there cornering speed and traction to help them round corners.

Re: Weird idea for motorcycle design
 

Yeah, I agree, but if somehow the downforce would be directly transferred to the tire or the wheel rim, then it would be awesome! .. Daydreaming...

Re: Weird idea for motorcycle design
 

I don't think it is much of a priority as the bike does lean, meaning that you can only optimise for one angle really, anything else and it isn't going to have positive effect.

The other thing is why doesn it need to be only on the wheel? You say its because of suspension but cars bodys are designed as the aerodynamic downforce generators yet they push down on the suspension and still have the desired effect.

Also most bikes are capable of knee down/elbow down kind of lean angles so how much more do you want to go?

Re: Weird idea for motorcycle design
 

Given that we want wheels as light as possible to reduce gyroscopic forces and make the bike turn faster, complex systems on the wheels are probably off the menu for now.

Cars suit wings well because in a corner the car's weight is pushing towards the outside of the corner, but the down force acts stright down, helping the tyres to grip.

A motorbike's forces in corner are rather different, with there being no surface that can offer force straight down, and any forces acting in line with the bike working at over 50 degrees to the vertical on a MotoGP bike mid-corner.

Aerodynamics play a big part in stabilising the bike on the straights though.

The other major problem with aerodynamics and bikes is the rider, who refuses to sit perfectly still and messes everything up.;)

Jambo

Re: Weird idea for motorcycle design
 

Interesting thought, I just had a quick think about it and I think the problem is - as mentioned above - the lean angle of the bike.

Bikes need lean angle to turn through a certain radius. Cars need the angle of the front wheels turned, to turn through a certain radius.

I think at the moment the limit of the tyre lean angle *can* be reached, so what you'd need is (in motorsport at least) to increase the amount of lean available on the tyre. It's not available now because they would low side - and they would low side because the tyre didn't have enough grip (which would be offered by these wings).

It'd be the same problem if cars were on full lock while making the same turns, increasing the downforce wouldn't help without increasing the lock and giving them a way to use it.

It might be useful as a safety device though.

Oh and I am conveniently ignoring all Jambo's real-life points in favour of the pure theory answer :)

Re: Weird idea for motorcycle design
 

Found something about the subject (apart from the google books). Apparently some nut job did try it :) Linky:
http://www.motorcycletrader.co.nz/Vi...4967266&No=135

They don't actually say about the benefits (or lack of them for that matter), but it's an interesting read nevertheless

Re: Weird idea for motorcycle design
 

Why would wings be on the wheels? No gyro forces if they aren't spinning.

For that matter they wouldn't have to be on the fork lowers, so not adding unsprung weight either.

Re: Weird idea for motorcycle design
 

How about fan blades instead of spokes? At high lean angles, the wheel would be blown into the ground, increasing traction? (perhaps :?)

Only for use on track tho, where you're doing more turning one way than the other. Or go down the route of adjustable pitch blades.

Re: Weird idea for motorcycle design
 

Hahaha I love it! it would be a real chopper! (couldn't help it..)
The only thing left is to actually drive fast enough to provide sufficient spin speed