Re: ABS - Gimmick or great
 

How does telelever affect the corner force/braking force tyre losing grip situation? Intuitively Ive always felt it does but have no evidence for this?

Re: ABS - Gimmick or great
 

If I'm getting the picture correctly, the only real advantage of the telelever is that it makes the suspension less dependent on the angle of lean / braking forces, effectively making it react better to the pavement irregularities.

With a normal suspension you're limited by the amount of friction between the fork legs / stanchions rubbing inside each other like a sleeve (ooooo errr). This could work very well when the legs are in the exact same axis of travel as the stanchions, with no extra force being exerted anywhere in the contact points between legs and stanchions.
As soon as you start accounting for the transversal forces that develop when you lean the bike, or for that matter, the longitudinal forces from braking that push the wheel backwards, you're going fast into localized friction points territory as these forces tend to misalign the legs and stanchions, creating pressure points which will tend to increase the friction between those components. The higher the friction, the more force will be necessary to slide the forks, so less responsive it will be to the minor bumps on the pavement.

The telelever avoids this by using a system similar to cars suspension systems, with two triangles on top of each other rotating on pivot points, a shock between them, and no sliding parts to stick to each other due to increased friction.

So, trying to answer your question... at the end of the day, a given tyre will only be able to cope with a given amount of force before it loses grip, so assuming the same road conditions, speed, etc, no, it'll lose traction just the same. What the telelever may help with is keeping the front wheel on the ground for longer, and reacting to the pavement more smoothly than a normal "slider" suspension... which can make the difference all by itself.

HTH, and sorry for any confusion this may have caused.

Sincerely yours,

Confoozled Portugeezer.

Re: ABS - Gimmick or great
 

Personally, if any bike I bought had ABS, the first mod I would make would be to disable it.

ABS doesn't counter well for the road condition, and I don't like being removed from control.

Yes, I could stop quicker (under certain conditions) using ABS, I accept that. I'd just hate to think that I had slid down the road because of ABS because I had "blind faith" in the ABS & squeeze as tight as possible.

Re: ABS - Gimmick or great
 

I rode an Honda CBF? 500 whilst doing my DAS and that had ABS, certainlly handy knowing you will 100% NOT lock up whilsty doing your emergency stop on the test :p.

In a car I'm a firm believer of not having it, infact i hate cars with it generally, i used to do alot of trackdays and naughty fast road driving, and to have abs or ESP kick in way before it needed to like on alot of cars was most annoying.

Re: ABS - Gimmick or great
 

+1

Re: ABS - Gimmick or great
 

I think ABS could be worth it if it saves ya skin. I certainly don't go with the view that is is a substitute for common sense or motorcycle skill...merely a helping hand if the wotsit hits the fan.

Since most bikes will seem to have it anyway in the future, then it must do something.

I mean, the Germans go for ABS on their beemers and when have they ever gone mad?

Re: ABS - Gimmick or great
 

TWO did a test with James Whitham and a regular pleb on the new Sprint, in slightly damp conditions... The ABS bike stopped faster every time. That's planend stops not emergencies, and it's fair to say James Whitham's better than I am. So, I'd like ABS. Even if I could bring it up faster than the ABS would allow in controlled conditions- which, you never know, is dimly possible- the entire point of an emergency stop is that they're not controlled conditions. The nature of the beast is that it'll usually happen at the worst possible time. And we're not just talking about locking up and crashing, locking up at all will cost you stopping distance as you have to correct.

But, I want to be able to switch it off for trackdays- the point there is to test my skill after all. The point in an emergency stop is just to stop, you don't get points for style...

Re: ABS - Gimmick or great
 

From the Police Rider's handbook (I'm paraphrasing) "The main benefit ABS confers is actually the increased confidence in hard braking. Many riders are unwilling to even begin to approach the limit of braking on bikes without ABS, particularly in the wet."

With this in mind, I went out for a ride immediately after reading it (it was raining as it happened) and I thought, "Okay, I'll pull the brakes fractionally harder than usual." I only pulled the brake a tiny bit harder and the front locked up. I was lucky not to crash. Even so, I tend to agree with Fizzwheel's POV on the matter. If I knew I had ABS and could rely on it, I'd ride harder, which would negate the safety gain (talking about me, I'm sure other people are more responsible). So, all I'd be left with is something I wouldn't be happy to service myself, increased initial cost and a marginally increased chance of mechanical failure.

I've only ridden one bike with ABS and even then, I wasn't ragging it, so didn't notice it. But I've driven plenty of cars with lots of driver aids (I especially hate traction control) and they sap all the fun out of it.

Re: ABS - Gimmick or great
 

Talking about 4 wheels for a second & not 2. I'd dispute that.

On snow (and even more so on ice), I'd rather point the car away from harm (90degrees or more) & nail the throttle to the floor.

Having done that a couple of times on ice, it's far more likely to get you out of a sticky situation than sliding is. The moment you lock the front wheels (or turn too agressively) on ice, you're doomed to slide in a straight line.

On a bike, sheet ice you're screwed if you even try & ride IMO. Anything with a few lumps in gives better traction. I've ridden in snow/hail & the hail settled on the road pretty quickly (like riding on ball bearings that!) & about the only thing you can do is ride very slowly in a straight line.

Re: ABS - Gimmick or great
 

I have to say I must be sensible then. Having ABS hasnt noticeably changed my riding style - crashing the SV had more of, if you forgive the pun, an impact on that.

I seriously would be questioning my skills or even being on the bike if I changed my riding and rode harder relying on one feature of the bike tbh. But thats me I guess.

For me the ABS is there as an added confidence that should I have to brake suddenly Im less likely to lock the wheel up. That on no account removes any onus on me to ride within my limits or responsibly and not put myself in the position to have to actually rely on its shorter stopping distance. :D