Re: Stoned to death
 

But, and I haven't read up on this because as I said earlier, I don't want to know the details, normally in cases like this, it is the groups like Amnesty International who highlight it and THEN celebs get involved and then the Govt. That's how these things get changed. Without the support of the celebs and the govt and the general public, there would be nothing Amnesty would be able to do about these things!

It's a two way street.

Re: Stoned to death
 

No matter how wrong, or evil or bad it is.

Its another countries culture, and who are we as a western country to go in and change their ways. No matter how bad it is.

As I joked, we're not team America, we don't like it so we'll invade.

Im sure they think we're just as bad, but at the other end of the spectrum. They are over-sentanced, and they probably laugh their head off at our lame under sentancing.

Nuke them all.

Re: Stoned to death
 

Oh well, we should just get rid of the EHRC then too eh?? Who cares if a 13 yr old girl gets stoned to death because she was raped, hell mend her for living in that country :rolleyes:

Re: Stoned to death
 

actually, I was referring to your comment as you can see from my original post, not the op's

This one, particularly the use of the word tradition.

A lot of sweeping statements on here, this being on of them. You really have to think about the number of muslim countries there are, (ie Morrocco to Indonesia, and most in between) and how many of them actually stone their citizens. You mention Saudi, but that is a country run by Wahaabi's, generally viewed as an extremist sect by the rest in that region. Everyone knows they're a corrupt bunch anyway, who enjoy the fruits of their land without sharing it with the people. As far as I'm concerned, Saudi Arabia is a rogue state (like Somalia and Iran). The only difference is they have something that is beneficial to other countries, so they can get away with their barbaric local executions. It doesn't mean this represents the actions and beliefs of every other country in that region.

I don't even know what religion this comes under, because I'm pretty sure being 'accused' of adultery and being raped are not stoning offences in any of the old bibilical books, so I think labelling these action's as Muslim is exactly the same as labelling KKK lynchings as Christian. Just because something is done in the name of something/or by people with a religious label, it does not rightly earn an attribution to that name, especially when it is only a minority.

The majority of citizens of these countries don't like the circumstances in which they are living. The countries mentioned (Saudi,Iran,Somalia) are run by people who shouldn't be there. The people in power in these countries are corrupt individuals who aim to strengthen their grip on power under the name of religion to maintain their position. People need to realise that a corrupt government of these 'savage' nations is not their equivalent to the pope, or whoever.

Personally, I think the most 'savage' country in the middle east is perhaps the one that is receiving the most financial aid than any other country in the world, and doesn't really care where they drop their highly precisioned bombs, but I guess that's something else. Can't think of any other middle eastern country that's killed more women or kids. I prefer to judge nations by these stats, and not some stoning case that comes up in the news every now and again probably cos one senior idiot in a a stripy uniform thought 'why not it'll show the rest'.

Re: Stoned to death
 

Religion hey? Greatest invention that man ever came up with! pah.

What infuriates me is the poor woman has already been punished with 99 lashes, has spent the last 5 years in prison and now they want to stone her1 All for the same offence.Do these people not know whn enough is enough?

Re: Stoned to death
 

OMG i was going to post something but i saw this and for once i find myself agreeing with Q... WTF i must go and whip myself with some olive branches or something.

their country, their laws who are we to tell them what to do. i think its sick and barbarrick but i dont stay in an islamic country. besides its not that long ago we had issues with Ireland and the condom....

Re: Stoned to death
 

Yes I`m fully aware that you were having a dig at my thread.

I think you need to read the posts properly rather than think you have read and understood what someone is saying. The original poster asked the question how can human beings do this to another human being ie. sentence this woman to death by a public stoning? I answered that the reason is religion and tradition... now, please tell me where in my answer I have not given accurate information?

Is it not the case that it is the culture of this country to sentence people to death by stoning for certain crimes? Are religion and tradition not important components of what dictates a particular country`s culture?

Re: Stoned to death
 

Whats the difference between stoning a woman to death in the middle east and texas executing prisoners who should be in mental hospitals ? nothing, its just we always think we know better in the west thats all, mans inhumamity to man with a bit of good old religion thrown in for good measure.

Re: Stoned to death
 

Seems not. Bunch of feckin savages. I don't care about religion and tradition and all the rest of it, respect for human life is far more important, and I believe that the rest of the world is entitled to comment on blatantly inhumane practices. A few posts on here suggest that the woman knew the risks, but there appears to have been fabricated evidence and forced confessions. Let's leave that aside, frankly I find it sad when people say that just because someone knows the risks somehow justifies the results according to that country's culture and traditions. Iran hangs gay men, so does being gay and having sex with another man justify a public hanging, even though the man knows the risks?

Of course not. We should and must speak out against such atrocities.

Re: Stoned to death
 

And I`d add that this poor woman has already received punishment for her so called "crime". She was convicted of having an illicit relationship and received 99 lashes for this, she then had to undergo a separate trial for adultery within marriage and the penalty for this was death.

For the stoning women are buried up to their chest whereas men are only buried to their waist. Women are constantly discriminated against before the law and courts, the weight attached to one man`s evidence is equivalent to that of two women. Discrimination against women in other aspects of their lives also renders them more susceptible to conviction for adultery ie. Women are allowed only one sexual partner in life whereas men are allowed four permanent wives and an unlimited number of temporary wives.

These women don`t choose be born in this country... they are born and brought up in that country through no fault of their own. They are unable to leave due to parental control, enforced marriages, lack of money and lack of education. They don`t agree with the cruelty that goes on but see it as their lot. So I don`t always agree with the statement "when you live in a country you abide by their rules" as these women are not always there by choice.

Re: Stoned to death
 

I'm 100% against the UK and USA imposing our ideals on other cultures, and at the same time I am 100% against other cultures moving into this country and trying to change the way we live the British way of life. We have a justice system that mostly works, and it doesn't involve barbaric acts such as stoning a 13 year old girl because she claims to have been raped. It'll be a very sad day when this country takes a huge step backwards past the middle ages and into the kind of culture that we'd live in under Sharia Law.

I may be accused of being racist by some, but I can assure everyone I'm not. I won't come out with the "some of my best friends are black/asian/whatever" because at the moment it's just my current girlfriend and one of my daughter's boyfriend who are. I am a lover of the way we live our life in this country, which I maintain is the best country in the world that anyone can choose to live in, and I'm proud to have been born here (even if my roots are in Malta). If someone comes here and doesn't like the way we live, doesn't like the laws we live under, doesn't like that young ladies can wear revealing clothes and have equality with men then they have two choices.

Choice 1. Accept it as a part of how the British live and integrate into British society whilst maintaining your own sense of national or cultural identity. Many thousands of people from all over the globe have done this and are living happy lives here with their grandchildren regarding themselves as British people. My family come under this category.

Choice 2. You had the choice to enter this country, you have the choice to leave if you don't like it, but don't expect us to bend over backwards to accept your way of life as our own and don't for a moment think we will even think about legally adopting practices we regard as barbaric, mysogonistic or otherwise radical.

If you want to live here, learn to live legally and morally like the majority of the indigenous population.

Re: Stoned to death
 

Yeh I'm not denying any of that. I guess I was just making the point that it is not just one religions tradition - not having a dig at anything in particular, perhaps read too much into it.

Lozzo, there are like 7 or 8 countries that have sharia law amongst the 40+ muslim countries there are in the whole world. Are you seriously worried that Britain would be number 9 on that list? The threat to this countries judicial system becoming Sharia is probably near to zero. You really don't have to worry about putting up a 'bitter fight' anytime soon.

Re: Stoned to death
 

Erm, maybe perhaps the fct that they make it a game, and that the persons getting stoned are bruied (either to waist or neck) and then they throw stones, not causing instant death, but stones selected to cause a huge amount of pain and suffering.

Perhaps if it was a case that they just dropped a giant rock on someones head, killing them instantly, your attempt at making a point would be relevant but as this is clearly torturing the person and THEN killing them, then it is ENTIRELY different from executions which take places in numerous other countries in the world.

Re: Stoned to death
 

See the other thread about Sharia Law and then tell me that isn't a backhanded attempt to get it recognised and then eased into our justice system. Up front attempts have already been made, and the way this country works it'll be the minority i.e. The radical Islamic community, who'll get their way eventually. If we all thought "Nah, that'll never happen here" then it's almost certain that it would. Radical groups rely on the apathy of the British public to get their own way because no-one can be bothered to make a fuss or stick their head over the parapet and say something, and where Islam is concerned most people are too afraid to do anything because of possible reprisals.

I accept that the vast majority of Muslim people living in Britain are fine people who work hard and live good and decent lives, but there's always an idiot Islamic cleric living in the dark ages who'll ruin it for everyone, and unfortunately the crowd usually follow the leaders.

Re: Stoned to death
 

I recall that a judge even suggested that there was room for this Sharia claptrap in British law, for example in family disputes.

I'm with Lozzo on this, thin end of the wedge.

The day we accept laws based on brutality as a norm is the day I pack my bags.

Re: Stoned to death
 

Yeah you,re absolutely right of course, I just meant that killing someone in the name of what is a law of religous belief is wrong, sorry for attempting to voice an opinion, Ill stfu now ;)

Re: Stoned to death
 

But this probably happens in every muslim country, and like I said only 7 or so actually have Sharia law out of the 40+ countries there are. Just because some people are trying it here, the threat is not genuine. It just won't happen. There is more likelihood of the BNP getting into power, and no-ones worried about that becoming a reality.

Gonna quote soulkiss from the other thread as he's put this well

He's right, quoting the Times here

Under the act, the sharia courts are classified as arbitration tribunals. The rulings of arbitration tribunals are binding in law, provided that both parties in the dispute agree to give it the power to rule on their case.

As this is the case, I have absolutely no fear that it will not become more than that. If let's assume it does become a 'like it or lump it' set of laws, it can only realistically be applied to muslim citizens of this country. But then how would that work? Would a muslim woman get nicked if she's seen to have an affair by the good old local PC Joe Bloggs and handed over to the Sharia Judges?! If this country came to that, then I'm sure you'd see a lot more muslims leaving this country than coming here.

The 'Sharia law' one day taking over this countries whole judicial system is nothing short of a paranoid myth. It simply will not happen. If Egypt, Azerbaijan and other muslim countries can hold out, I'm sure the British government and Brits are pretty safe.


Crowd follow the leaders? Define leaders?

Muslim nut job with a hook who is brought into the spotlight? Some random head of some random mosque somewhere in East London or Bradford? The only reason these people are even noticed is because the press gives them their time of day.

It's slightly presumptious to

a: assume these islamic clerics living in the dark ages are anything near true leaders

b. that the crowd follow these nutjobs.

Re: Stoned to death
 

I'm with Lozzo on this.

I would add though, although I agree that all aspects of stoning are barbaric, if someone were to rape or murder my daughter, they'd be subject to a fate much worse.