I think someone may have mentioned 'The War' - but they might have got away with it. :wink:

" northwind wrote - Presumably, today he thinks that the way to strengthen the Church is "Your either for us or against us" "

That is the truth about all religions. There is no maybe or middle area , it is a clear-cut black or white. You can not be half of one religion a bit of the next .....
I know this sound hard but if you read any religious text the message on that is clear.

Some religions is more tolerant towards others , meaning live with them and try to change their way of live , other are not .

It is up to us to decide what we believe .

:winner:
*wipes coffee from his monitor & strips his keyboard down to wipe under the keys*

IMHO, The Pope was completely wrong to use that quote as emphasis for his 'belief' that religion & violence do not mix. IMO, the only way to show this would be to quote how bad christianity had been in the past and vow never to return to such 'dark times'.

The only folks he would of p****d off that way would be his own followers!

I grew up around Leeds, and spent a lot of time around Bradford, so I've seen a lot of racial hatred. More often than not these days, it's as folks have said in this thread, the open hatred is coming FROM the asian (I wont pretend it's just Muslims) community.

Random made up quote: "Muslims are terrorists, they have to be stopped, lets put our heads together & come up with a plan."
Muslim typical reaction: "We're not terrorists, and to prove that fact, we're going to start a riot, wreck a few towns, turn cars upside down, set them on fire, destroy local shops, just to show our point of view!"

Utter madness! Yes, I know the paragraph above is extreme, but it's only an inflimation of the truth.

FWIW, I'm atheist, and have several muslim friends, some of whom are thinking of emigrating JUST to be away from any potential violence in any direction!

I once read an amusing one liner... "Personally its not God I dislike, its his fan club I can.t stand".

It seems to me that religion it's self isn't too much of a problem, it's the vast quantities of idiots who twist it into an excuse to attack people they don't like.

:)

David

!!!Rant alert!!!

I know what the Pope said but I'm not sure of the context so the jury's still out. Maybe if the church were a little more militant and we saw some real wrath of God righteous smiting of the sinner stuff we would feel a little less apologetic. One of the attractions of Islam is that it does provide a real moral compass, things are either right or wrong while the Christian church is trying to be all things to all men.

People are entitled to believe in what they like provded they don't try to force their views on me. How I talk to god, indeed which god I talk to is a very personal choice and I don't need mullahs wailing from minarets or priests waving smokey handbags telling me what to do. It may well damn my immortal soul to burn in hell for all eternity but who say's they're right and I not? My choice OK!

The same faith that created the Spanish Inquisition also produced Mother Theresa and many great scientific discoveries were made under the Islamic culture, in fact one school of thought suggests that technologically we would be several hundred years ahead of where we are now if the Moors had finished conquering Europe were they not defeated by Charles Martel at Tours in the 8th century. The dark ages would have been bypassed and scientific progress in a united Europe would have flourished - unless of course there was an anti scientific backlash provoked by religious dogma, you can never tell how things would have turned out.

My own feeling is that Islam as pushed by some of its more extreme proponents belongs in the dark ages. Purdah, Shariah law etc are repellent to me, the idea that a woman must produce four witnesses in order to accuse a man of rape is monstrous.

My concern is that we see militant islamists (islamists note, not Moslems, in my book they are two different breeds) blatently stiring up religious hatred with a hamstrung politically correct police force tippy toeing round them. They pour scorn on our laws and traditions but are happy to hide behind them just as a career criminal breaks the law but then hires a smart lawyer to defend them using the same laws they happily ignore. In the present climate there is concern rightly or wrongly about immigration and terrorism with our elected officials seemingly powerless to do anything about them citing international conventions and human rights issues; although they seem quite eager to want to restrict the rights of the law abiding citizen still further. I am worried that extremism will override moderation and groups, for example a "respectable" right wing organisation, could capitalise on the feeling in the street whipping up actual hatred and causing a massive backlash resulting in the biggest forced migration since Edward 1st expelled the Jews.

Remember, Hitler was democratically elected.

Good rant! Mother Theresa though... Denouncing safe sex in a country with a terrible AIDS problem, and actually teaching that condoms are useless to prevent AIDS... Nice.

That was her was it? Forgot about that although I was using her as an example of compassion as opposed to flaying alive and strangulation with one's own intestines. Maybe Albert Schweitzer would be a better example of the compassionate side of Christianity, I don't ever recall him being accused of dogmatism.

Northy, you can't knock Sister T, is nothing sacred :lol:

I pity the fool, thug, or soul who tries to take over the world...


:lol: