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-   -   Hard nosed b*stard (http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=125093)

kwak zzr 05-02-09 09:27 PM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
they got hit by a few hundred whilst in the steet.

454697819 05-02-09 09:35 PM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
everybody has an acceptable level of risk, Mine is higher than catherines, and as shuch I drove in on monday and she didnt because she was going further into the sticks than me and had further to drive, she lost the days pay but Id rather that than the car or kitten was hurt!

I dont think its fair to deduct wages but holiday or make the time up yes... but how would you feel if you couldnt get into work because it was outside your comfort zone? (not saying that is the case but this is how it should be if the person has rationaly take the decision not to come in!)

my 1p...

Dave20046 05-02-09 09:37 PM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Baph (Post 1774024)
I do IT Support within the Gambling Industry. Unless you're local-ish to Anglesey they wouldn't be interested, but they are still actively hiring - despite the recession. :D

I do IT support for schools its ****e, how far away's anglesey from sheffield and how mcuh do they pay?

Lozzo 06-02-09 12:43 AM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed (Post 1773073)
Me, that is!

If people cannot get to work because they claim to be snowed in, am I right to deduct a day's pay?

Yes, you are right.

This morning at 06-50 I was due to go from Bedford Station to Accrington, Lancs by train to collect a car. I ended up leaving an hour late because I couldn't decide whether to go or not, the snow was quite bad but trains were running on time. I got there at 2pm with my mate and we bought the car, a 325bhp Lancer Evo VI and then I drove it carefully back home via Market Harborough, Northants - by 8pm I was home.

If I can do that then your staff can make it the few miles into work in the morning.

Ping 06-02-09 01:38 AM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lozzo (Post 1774362)
Yes, you are right.

This morning at 06-50 I was due to go from Bedford Station to Accrington, Lancs by train to collect a car. I ended up leaving an hour late because I couldn't decide whether to go or not, the snow was quite bad but trains were running on time. I got there at 2pm with my mate and we bought the car, a 325bhp Lancer Evo VI and then I drove it carefully back home via Market Harborough, Northants - by 8pm I was home.

If I can do that then your staff can make it the few miles into work in the morning.

And what if the trains weren't running or running with severe delays?

Lozzo 06-02-09 02:06 AM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ping (Post 1774378)
And what if the trains weren't running or running with severe delays?

They were running on time today in the worst snow I've seen in recent years. It was 7 inches deep across my back garden this morning, it's a long time since it's been that bad. My trains took me from Bedford to Leicester, change for Birmingham New Street then on to Preston where we got a local train to Accrington. Every one of them was bang on time despite the midlands being worst hit by last night's snow.

BanannaMan 06-02-09 04:03 AM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
I'm with you Ed!

I don't think most people realise how hard is is running your own business.

If my business is open, employees either make it in or lose one day of holiday or one day of pay.


Of course the one I ever have out has already used up all his holidays. :rolleyes:
He has a week of holiday and a week of sick leave. (2 weeks total off for the year) Used them all up in his first 3 months. :rolleyes:

454697819 06-02-09 08:13 AM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ping (Post 1774378)
And what if the trains weren't running or running with severe delays?

Or if that was out of thier comfort zone.

there is a Reasonability of expecting ppl to get into work but not if it is our of thier comfort zone (within reason)

Ping 06-02-09 09:28 AM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lozzo (Post 1774387)
They were running on time today in the worst snow I've seen in recent years. It was 7 inches deep across my back garden this morning, it's a long time since it's been that bad. My trains took me from Bedford to Leicester, change for Birmingham New Street then on to Preston where we got a local train to Accrington. Every one of them was bang on time despite the midlands being worst hit by last night's snow.

That not be what I asked, mister. :P

What if the trains weren't running or running with severe delays? Would you have managed to complete that job?

timwilky 06-02-09 09:40 AM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
OK, So I am old and miserable. but the snow is not how I remember it from my childhood in the 60s. As a kid our drive was about 400yds long and down hill. So from age 6 onwards if it snowed us kids had to get up early to clear the snow so dad could leave on time to take us to school on his way to work. bonus was mum had to get up early too in order to to provide bacon and egg reward. we also had to clear it at night so dad could get his car up the drive.

There was one series of hills on the way to school, where the police would stop you, let air out of your tyres and another copper on the other side with a foot pump to get you back upto pressure.

We would build 100yrd long slides in the playground in the ice. fall on our backsides and throw snowballs at each other/teachers etc.

OK my school was also a convent. The teachers all nuns who lived on the premises etc. But it was still an 8 mile drive from home. Never was the school closed despite far worse snow than we have seen.

When I first started work in the 70s, we were only once sent home early because of the weather. It was heavy snow and all those who lived more that 5 miles away were sent home when roads started to be closed as they knew we would have to walk. but still expected in next day.

petevtwin650 06-02-09 09:55 AM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
Roads were quieter, tyres were narrower, so gripped better through the snow. No driver aids. Better standard of driving then too IMO. Everybody used to clear the pavement outside their house. Kids were allowed to flirt with danger.

Dave20046 06-02-09 10:16 AM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by petevtwin650 (Post 1774570)
Roads were quieter, tyres were narrower, so gripped better through the snow. No driver aids. Better standard of driving then too IMO. Everybody used to clear the pavement outside their house. Kids were allowed to flirt with danger.

Talking of flirting with danger did you know you can be sued if you clear the pavement outside your house and some trips. sickening aint it.

Lozzo 06-02-09 10:21 AM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ping (Post 1774525)
That not be what I asked, mister. :P

What if the trains weren't running or running with severe delays? Would you have managed to complete that job?

Well, Missy :D

My orginal response was refering to yesterday, when Ed said he checked the buses were running and one person decied they weren't coming in to work despite the fact they could have.

There were no 'what if's' to consider yesterday, it was a clear cut case of transport being available yet they didn't bother to use it.

If, and this is a big if, the trains were delayed I would still have made my trip yesterday. We set off an hour later than planned because I procrastinated about whether we should go or not. Once I'd found out the trains were running on time we set off. Had all trains been cancelled then the decision would have been out of my hands, because there was no other transport available.

Luckypants 06-02-09 10:22 AM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave20046 (Post 1774590)
Talking of flirting with danger did you know you can be sued if you clear the pavement outside your house and some trips. sickening aint it.

yeah but in the 'gold old days' we didn't have the blame and claim culture.... If you had tried suing someone for being public spirited, you would most likely be reprimanded for wasting the court's time! I still grit the road outside my house, allows a safe breaking area before the hill.

Lozzo 06-02-09 10:27 AM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by petevtwin650 (Post 1774570)
Roads were quieter, tyres were narrower, so gripped better through the snow. No driver aids.

Yesterday I was driving with no ABS, no traction control and on 225/45 - 18 tyres. It did help that I had mud and snow tyres though :D

petevtwin650 06-02-09 10:44 AM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckypants (Post 1774598)
yeah but in the 'gold old days' we didn't have the blame and claim culture.... If you had tried suing someone for being public spirited, you would most likely be reprimanded for wasting the court's time! I still grit the road outside my house, allows a safe breaking area before the hill.

Yep, back in the day, there was always a hopper at the bottom of a hill filled with salt/grit. Certainly on main roads at least.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lozzo (Post 1774604)
Yesterday I was driving with no ABS, no traction control and on 225/45 - 18 tyres. It did help that I had mud and snow tyres though :D

That sounds fun.

DanAbnormal 06-02-09 11:13 AM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
I couldn't get to work Monday. Riding the bike would've ended up with me inhospital, no question of that. I live 2 mins from a train station and all trains were cancelled all day. There were 12 accidents on the roundabout near my house. While I knew it would snow I don't have a laptop so how can I plan ahead? Unless I decide to take my desk PC home with me. So I called the boss and got nothing but grief, he made it in so there was no reason I couldn't apparently. No taxi firm would come out, no buses, no trains. I couldn't actually afford a taxi 32 miles to work anyway but was trying to get to a station that may be open but turns out none were anyway. He is now saying he will dock a days wages and I am fighting this with HR. He said it's not the companies fault I could not make it to work, only 3 people in our office out of 250 made it in on Monday. This is after I actually ended up working on Monday anwyay as I asked him to send me work to my home email address. I fecking hate this place.

jimmy__riddle 06-02-09 11:17 AM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DanAbnormal (Post 1774662)
I couldn't get to work Monday. Riding the bike would've ended up with me inhospital, no question of that. I live 2 mins from a train station and all trains were cancelled all day. There were 12 accidents on the roundabout near my house. While I knew it would snow I don't have a laptop so how can I plan ahead? Unless I decide to take my desk PC home with me. So I called the boss and got nothing but grief, he made it in so there was no reason I couldn't apparently. No taxi firm would come out, no buses, no trains. I couldn't actually afford a taxi 32 miles to work anyway but was trying to get to a station that may be open but turns out none were anyway. He is now saying he will dock a days wages and I am fighting this with HR. He said it's not the companies fault I could not make it to work, only 3 people in our office out of 250 made it in on Monday. This is after I actually ended up working on Monday anwyay as I asked him to send me work to my home email address. I fecking hate this place.

will they not let you take it as holiday?

Dave20046 06-02-09 11:18 AM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DanAbnormal (Post 1774662)
I couldn't get to work Monday. Riding the bike would've ended up with me inhospital, no question of that. I live 2 mins from a train station and all trains were cancelled all day. There were 12 accidents on the roundabout near my house. While I knew it would snow I don't have a laptop so how can I plan ahead? Unless I decide to take my desk PC home with me. So I called the boss and got nothing but grief, he made it in so there was no reason I couldn't apparently. No taxi firm would come out, no buses, no trains. I couldn't actually afford a taxi 32 miles to work anyway but was trying to get to a station that may be open but turns out none were anyway. He is now saying he will dock a days wages and I am fighting this with HR. He said it's not the companies fault I could not make it to work, only 3 people in our office out of 250 made it in on Monday. This is after I actually ended up working on Monday anwyay as I asked him to send me work to my home email address. I fecking hate this place.

He should dock it from you pay with no complaints, if he pays you then he's very generous for a boss. I agree though you had no way of getting in, if I was you boss and understood that you'd genuinely tried to get in then I'm probably give half pay.

Lozzo 06-02-09 11:36 AM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by petevtwin650 (Post 1774625)



That sounds fun.

I forgot to mention 365bhp and 4WD to play with too.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3100/...98be3805_o.jpg

The new toy

Lou M 06-02-09 11:52 AM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
I drove Mr Lou to work today, didn't want him walking as worcestershire roads haven't been gritted and all too easy to lose control.

Took the old banger as I'm not fussed if anything happens to it (though Evie M was upset as it's going to be her car! LOL) and do you know what? Because I wasn't worried about the car I really enjoyed the drive, good fun to put my foot down when I got to his work drive (no one around) and to try and spin the back end out.

Ed 06-02-09 12:02 PM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
Hardly any snow ledt here today. The pics of the snow in Bristol on the BBC News website are awesome though:cool:

timwilky 06-02-09 12:06 PM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
I have to say that I was impressed by an article on the news the other day about NHS staff bedding down on an empty ward so that they would not be troubled getting to/from work.


Although the article showed staff unpacking, female/male in adjacent beds. Are they going to get into trouble for mixed sex wards?

petevtwin650 06-02-09 12:10 PM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed (Post 1774760)
Hardly any snow ledt here today. The pics of the snow in Bristol on the BBC News website are awesome though:cool:

It was still snowing here at 10 this morning Ed. So I'll be a little late in! ;):p

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...inRugby004.jpg

Daimo 06-02-09 01:47 PM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
Thats not enough snow to say your not going to work.

When its past your door handles, its time to give up.

I'd have rode my bike on that road, and did down my own one, 3 days in a row.......

Lou M 06-02-09 01:49 PM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
It's snowed hard here again today, but it's melting away now.

Skip 06-02-09 01:56 PM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
We have had next to no snow at all - its just wet - very disappointing :(

Daimo 06-02-09 02:13 PM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
Our 3" of snow we had left yesterday morning had complelty gone by the time I got home.

It made me sad.

Due snow tonight, but i think its too wet, and too cold for snow to lay now :(

typical eh. MONDAY - Snow snow snow, while we all have to work.
Come the weekend though, lets melt so to ruin the humans weekend.

Mofo snow.

Stu 06-02-09 02:29 PM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lozzo (Post 1774596)
Well, Missy :D

My orginal response was refering to yesterday, when Ed said he checked the buses were running and one person decied they weren't coming in to work despite the fact they could have.

There were no 'what if's' to consider yesterday, it was a clear cut case of transport being available yet they didn't bother to use it.

If, and this is a big if, the trains were delayed I would still have made my trip yesterday. We set off an hour later than planned because I procrastinated about whether we should go or not. Once I'd found out the trains were running on time we set off. Had all trains been cancelled then the decision would have been out of my hands, because there was no other transport available.

You were actually responding to Ed's first question which stated that "If people cannot get to work " So I'm with Ping :D Employees lying should be a completely different topic.
Quote:

Originally Posted by DanAbnormal (Post 1774662)
<snip> I fecking hate this place.

That's awful mate :( I was in exactly the same position but I'm glad there's not even been any hint of deductiong pay or holiday
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave20046 (Post 1774670)
He should dock it from you pay with no complaints, if he pays you then he's very generous for a boss. I agree though you had no way of getting in, if I was you boss and understood that you'd genuinely tried to get in then I'm probably give half pay.

What an absolute **** you would make as a boss. Running a business is about taking risks - including the risk that the people you employ might not be able to come to work. It is a contract of employment, not payment for hours worked.:smt076

Bluepete 06-02-09 02:34 PM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
Snow? What snow?

Just come back from a gorgeous ride in bright sun, blue skies and dry roads.

Sorry, not helping am I :D :D :D

Ed 06-02-09 03:14 PM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu (Post 1774936)
Running a business is about taking risks - including the risk that the people you employ might not be able to come to work. It is a contract of employment, not payment for hours worked.:smt076

Stu, you are joking, surely. Contarcts are two way things. people should make every effort to come to work. If they genuinely can't, then there needs to be a discussion. But why should it automatically be the employer's loss? It isn't the employer's fault that the employee can't get there.

jimmy__riddle 06-02-09 03:17 PM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
at the end of the day youre paid to work, if you cant work within your contracted hours then its either holiday, sick leave or unpaid IMO

Daimo 06-02-09 04:17 PM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu (Post 1774936)
What an absolute **** you would make as a boss. Running a business is about taking risks - including the risk that the people you employ might not be able to come to work. It is a contract of employment, not payment for hours worked.

Running a business is about making money.

Not about being a typical UK charity case. A business is not a nursary, people need to accept responsibility.

UK employees get enough laws, benefits and rules to aid them and their jobs. If you don't turn up, don't whinge about not being paid.

Another reason to employ foriegners. They will work, be thankfull for the job, and not moan like an English person.

Why should an entire business have to suffer over 1 or 2 people? Creates a bad atmosphere. Those who came in, did so for no reason, whilst the people sat on their backsides at home, get away with a free day off.

Nope, sorry, they want to stay at home, they should be deducted. Its not the companies problem they cannot get into work. Its their problem.

shonadoll 06-02-09 04:33 PM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed (Post 1773959)
Quick update. Person came in and hardly spoke to me for the day. Well I don't care. I have sent a message that I will not tolerate this sort of thing - everyone else made an effort and got in. I think the real issue was that person had to pay the £7 bus fare. There was a suggestion that I should pay, swiftly rebuffed.

Jesus. That'taking the ****, can't believe they expected you to cough up.:confused:

the_lone_wolf 06-02-09 04:40 PM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
Just got an email through from our MD saying any time taken off due to snow can be put down as a special circumstance and there'll be no need to take leave or sacrifice pay

funnily enough everyone tried to get to work or worked from home if they could, wonder if that has anything to do with my employer's excellent relationship with it's employees and not acting like an all powerful tw*t when it comes to letting insignificant things like this slide?...

Ed 06-02-09 04:47 PM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by the_lone_wolf (Post 1775073)
funnily enough everyone tried to get to work or worked from home if they could, wonder if that has anything to do with my employer's excellent relationship with it's employees and not acting like an all powerful tw*t when it comes to letting insignificant things like this slide?...

TLW, I didn't recruit these people - it was a TUPE transfer. The outgoing bloke didn't tell them anything until we walked in the door. I have stopped it being a holiday club and I have made it plain that I expect performance, and as a result they hate me. Well I have broad shoulders. It is not insignificant - whether an employee comes to work, as Daimo says, is important. Everyone else got off their ar$e so why shouldn't she. And as it took her just over an hour to come into work on the bus, the words 'lead' and 'swinging' come to mind.

the_lone_wolf 06-02-09 04:57 PM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed (Post 1775080)
And as it took her just over an hour to come into work on the bus, the words 'lead' and 'swinging' come to mind.

I wasn't saying this was the outcome of your case, if this person truly was taking the mick then that's not right

but the thread seems to have degenerated into a generic one about handling time off work, and personally i think not greeting your employees back from a day off due to nasty driving conditions (even if they might have made it by sliding all over the place and taking several times longer than usual) with a demand for leave or docked pay is a step in the marathon of getting your employees feeling more inclined to work hard when you need them to...

Stu 06-02-09 05:02 PM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed (Post 1774976)
Stu, you are joking, surely. Contarcts are two way things. people should make every effort to come to work. If they genuinely can't, then there needs to be a discussion. But why should it automatically be the employer's loss? It isn't the employer's fault that the employee can't get there.

First off, not joking.
Second off, I'm talking about genuinely can't get to work i.e. The Police had closed the main road and there were no trains running (this was my situation - in your employee's case where the buses were running, then that's just a case of the employee lying so deal with him as you see fit)
Emmm...actually you've got me thinking, & I've just reread my contract which is completely silent on the matter because it is clearly not holiday & clearly not sickness, but I just think it is closer in nature to sickness i.e. you are prevented by circumstances outside your control from attending work, rather than holiday (where you choose not to attend work) therefore how would you treat genuine sickness? I hope pay the employee? but yet I would hope that it didn't count to the employee's total entitlement to sick pay (we are only allowed 5 days per year)

Ed 06-02-09 05:04 PM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
If it really were genuine I'd ask e'ee to take it as holiday oe else to make up the time. But I think it's a good idea to clarify with e'er - you might write and ask for a formal ruling, just so it's clear.

Stu 06-02-09 05:10 PM

Re: Hard nosed b*stard
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed (Post 1775102)
If it really were genuine I'd ask e'ee to take it as holiday oe else to make up the time. But I think it's a good idea to clarify with e'er - you might write and ask for a formal ruling, just so it's clear.

Sorry to go on about my situation, but I respectfully think that your situation where the e'ee made it in within 1 hr & for £7 is hardly worth further discussion.
But! I gave up trying to get to work at 11:30 & it took me another hour 'n a half to get back home, I hardly think that that is comparable to a relaxing holiday nicely planned in advance - I get precious few of those as it is at the legal min.

Holidays are supposed to benefit the e'er too! by providing refreshed happy workers :D


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