Bulletcams/recorders again
 

So, I did another video with the ATC2K and after the last results being decent, this one's randomly hopeless- as soon as the bike starts it goes wobbly. Same mounting position, same mount in fact! Fed up with it...

So... Time for a new one. Ebay's full of JXDs again, Dog Cam has some sale items, I figure on spending up to £250 on it. Feeling flush, I sold some PC rubbish :cool:

Nooooow then. Dogcam strongly recommend a camcorder over a digital device. That has the advantage too of camcorders being useful for other stuff... But they're bulky. The wee JXDs etc are dead cheap, and all-enclosed, and small, so that's miles easier to deal with but then, they say they don't give the same quality. There's also the question of battery life, with camcorders I can easily get a second battery, not an option with the JXDs.

So, for the JXD people... What sort of battery life do you get? Can you run the unit off the bike, or recharge it off the bike? If so, did you have to buy any extra stuff, and was it spendy?

And for the cams themselves... Half tempted to just splurge on a Dog Cam 520 but there's loads of options, down as low as £25 for a far eastern import. Using that and a cheap JXD I can do a whole setup for less than the nice Dog Cam! Maybe it's not quite as good, but is it £150 less good?

But I'm a bit in the dark on cam quality. It seems like there's loads with Sony CCDs on the market... And various older cams too with 420 lines instead of 520. How much of a difference does that make?

I don't mind spending money to get a fairly long-lasting setup, but at the same time I don't want to splash cash for no reason where for a small hit on quality I get a huge price saving.

Looking to buy this week so, tell me what to think!

Cheers

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

I started over here with 4Kam: http://www.4kam.com/bike_camera_moto...m_packages.htm

I found their DVR a pain in the backside to use, but they did say after I got a full refund that they have sorted the issue now.

I moved next to: http://www.dogcamsport.co.uk/single-bike-camera-kit.htm

That's a super bit of kit. 3 switches to flick and bam, your recording. I was getting just over 3 hours to a 4GB SD card but that was with the 5 hour battery pack.
The only problem is I found it had reliability issues when used day in day out. If you want to use it every now and then, this would be the perfect solution.

I'm now moving to the PDR100 with a HQ1 550 TVL camera. http://www.dogcamsport.co.uk/chasecam-pdr100.htm

The difference in tvl is not all that much. When you get to 520 and 550 it's then the DVR that becomes the bottle neck because most only record 640x480 @ 25 fps.

I would go with solid state recording because anything with moving parts on a bike will jump and skip unless well padded.

The main thing is, the more money you spend, the better quality you will get back. :)

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

Northy

I think I *may* have the best possible set-up :)

Spent £99 on a 4Kam camera.

Spent £200 on a Cowon A3 60GB media player.

Put a fixed mount on the bike using a modified (ie I bent it) scottoiler bracket, a fairing bolt and the free mount that came with the 4Kam.

I record @ 720x480 @ 3Mbps which is the highest this recorder does.

I am sure that those of the Soho Massive that have seen this will vouch for how good it is.

Camera and recorder will be coming to the AR.

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

I've got a dogcam pro 520 with an oldish MiniDV (tape) camera - when I say old, it's about 6 years old and works a treat...

I should really get my finger out and buy another battery or two since that's the only real issue. The quality is as good as if you were filming with the DV camera itself, and the number of tapes dictates how long you can film for (about 90 mins per tape).

I'd say if:

you already have some of the kit such as a DV or HDD camera

or

you're planning on doing regular videos/serious projects

this is the best way - I've not had chance to get out there and do any more videos since the pennine massive rideout in january... But I've been having a few brainstorms whilst wandering around york city centre. Thinking of getting up really early and doing some shooting :)

One or two other tips:

Although it takes much more effort and setting up, mounting the cam on your helmet gives more interesting videos by a country mile. IMO Badly mounted cameras on front mud guards or petrol tanks pointing straight at the speedo are horrendously boring and I generally switch off within 10 seconds or so. Helmet cam gives a clear view of the road and gives head movement = much more animated picture/not static...

Also, again it takes more time but if you can find some simple editing software and learn how to use it, your videos will become much more interesting. Edits mean you can drop the boring straights & traffic and get onto the interesting aspects of your rideout. Overtakes, cornering, various random bits and pieces all pulled together with a bit of decent music generally make videos more interesting to watch.

just my penneth

p.s. the quality of my helmet cam videos on youtube isn't representative of the full quality of the dogcam - the final video edit is compressed to fit on youtube :)

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

I use my JXD for track footage. I simply pop it on charge between sessions, so battery only needs to last 20 odd mins between charges (which is obviously no problem at all, they prolly last over an hour). But I also wired up a 5v fixed voltage regulator (~75p maplin) so it can be charged from the bikes battery. I did suffer some interference when filming connected to the bike/charging, I never looked into this any further but it might be something really simple.

Like I noticed the max input voltage was less than I was trying to put in with the bike running (i.e. the bike running is say 14v, max in for the voltage regulator was 12.5 or summin) .. I intended to actually just feed it from two regulators ... i.e. step it down to a fixed 9v, then to a fixed 5v ... the 9v can take upto 15 odd volts input you see ;)

If you are going the JXD route, there is no point buying one of the higher spec cams (unless you intend to upgrade the recorder at some point).

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

Hi again Andy......


....following on from previous posts, have you seen THIS PACKAGE yet? Looks pretty good. Certainly user friendly if its looks are anything to go by.

Garry:cool:

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

No Indi, I have not looked at your package. Ho ho. Looks like a good Dogcam alternative.

Hmm. Hmm again. You can get a decent spec used mini-DV camera off Ebay for well under £100, but then some of the JXDs are so cheap now that I could literally buy two, have one charging and use the other! I've got 2 fast 2gb SD cards so it'd be nice to be able to use those (then again, I might rig the ATC for a tail view, it needs an SD...)

Blue's footage is of a quality I'd be happy with- most views will be through Youtube anyway so they end up all compressed to hell regardless. In fact, when the ATC actually works I've been fairly happy with the quality, I was going to post a link here of it at its best til I noticed I triple-apexed the very first corner, how embarassing...)

I generally dislike helmet cam footage, mine especially is rotten- I move my head so much, and I'm never looking exactly where I'm going, that it's just a jerky confused mess. I've got a rock solid mount made out of an old mountain bike stem that I can bolt straight into a crash bung, works really well- the position gives a great impression of speed and lean, and it's very adjustable. But the ATC's hopeless with it due to interference from the engine.

Video camera people! How do you transfer the vids to PC? Play back the tape? Does it offload at 1-1 speed (ie, does it take 90 minutes to offload a 90 minute tape?) What format do they record in? I've never had a proper video camera...

Soulkiss, lots of people say that HDD cameras or devices are a bad idea with bike vibration, but it doesn't sound like you've had any problems? Just finished downloading your vid, and a player to play it (sigh) and it's really good...

All good food for thought, thanks folks... I'll go off and do the maths on some of these.

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

Before the JXD I bought a 60gb (HD) PMP ... sure enough it suffered from vibration problems, REGARDLESS of how much I tried rapping it up/isolating it from the world. It's a great little device, but it was a mistake getting it for on-board use!!

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

I generally dislike helmet cam footage,

Those ' lifesavers ' are the killers :(

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

With the camcorder I use a fire wire to get it off on to my PC, at a 1:1 speed, and being old itt struggles a little but the quality is good. The editing software I've got then uses .avi files, and can then write to mpegs, to dvd etc....

I find with a helmet cam I nod about a lot especially when changing gear!! For track footage I definitely prefer a bike mount. I sucker mine on justunder the lights.

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

Where and how exactly do you mount it to the bike? I have one and for the life of me, I can't find a suitable mounting position on the bike (pointy with lower plastics btw).

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

I've had it in a couple of places... When I had the fairings off, it bolted to the fork leg, using a wee loop of aluminium strip around the fork. That was quite good, but it fouls the fairing. I've also had it on a wee L bracket bolted to the front axle bolts- too flappy. A couple of others that wouldn't work with SV forks...

If you take a mirror off, you'll probably be able to make a mounting bracket that bolts inbetween mirror and fairing- I did that at the AR and it was very effective, though also very high up.

The trick is to use the round bracket- the handlebar one- and undo the bolt, then stick a metal bracket (ally strip is ideal) inbetween the jaws, that's very effective. Hang on, I'll see what pics I have:

This is the mirror mount I mentioned. Very simple, but high angles do make things seem a bit slow and floaty IMO. All it is, is a bit of .5mm steel sheet with 3 holes drilled in. It was a bit flappy so I used a little electrical tape to keep it stable. If I redid that I'd use something a bit thicker, 2mm ally sheet would do it I think.

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...end/goodpc.jpg

Most of the rest have been along these lines, this one was very effective. But it fouls the fairing :( Best I've had, I think. All the bracket is, is a P-shaped bend of aluminium which bolts to the fork, and then the camera bracket bolts to the sticky out part of the P. Very simple, took me about 5 minutes to make. (see my trackday prep... Sticky tyres? Check. Massive crash bungs? Check. Camera? Check. Take the fairings off and replace them with cardboard and cable ties? Check. Top Box? Check.)

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...l/IMG_0783.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...l/IMG_0809.jpg

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

WTF is that Mr Northy ... please please don't tell me you went round the track like that!! :shock: :lol:

EDIT: that is just a road pick isn't it (looks like you are in a car park by the sea or summin) ... even still ... you don't get seen in public with that monstrosity on the back do you!!?!?! :D

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

Ok, so we know the hard drive recorders are susceptible to vibration. But has anyone tried one with a solid state disk?

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

Not a cheap option, I take it you mean the solid state hard drives.

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

I have had no problems with my A3 just sitting in my tankbag.

I had plans of making up a padded thing for it to sit on/in but would be more concerned about the heat build up if I did that.

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

Thats the problem with hard drivers though, vibration will kill them over time due to the moving parts and such then one day you just get a failure, or things will start going wrong. As it only takes one whack to get the actuator arm to fail, though modern disk are far more hardy then those from a few years ago. In fact I would say the new generation of SATA drives are very robust.

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

I guess it also depends on the quality of the drive to start with ... mine was a goodmans PMP ... so lets face it, prolly not the high end HD inside ;)

But I still think it is a mistake going the HD route over the SD card/solid state route ... the results are good enough and the cost is acceptable, if not attractive (presuming you would need a expensive HD PMP to not get problems).

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

I have recently got myself a Panasonic SDR S10 camera which records straight on to sd card. I get just short of an hour on a 2 gig card on the medium quality setting.
It sits nicely on an Evotech bracket on the tank using the fuel cap screws.
here is an example of the quality, although it wasnt fitted to the bike at the time.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ_5LruHUOw

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

Thats a pathetic off - he didnt even manage to reach the grass - must try harder :)

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

Nah, the rack comes off in about a minute. Thank **** :D It was full of parts and tools there, that's the knockhill paddock. Who needs a van? :D But it'd be funny to give it a go on track with it on, I could add it to my paddock chat "Do you have wets on wheels?" "No, but I do have heated grips". "Do you have a laptimer beacon?" "No, but I do have a 12" meat feast" Pizza, that is.

I'm kind of shying away from the hard drive approach, not to say it doesn't work but I don't need the capacity and to make it worthwhile you need a really good camera too, it seems, so it'd probably bust my budget. There's that many options that I'm going to arbitrarily wipe some out, and that's a place to start I reckon.

I don't think a tank mount would work with my screen, and I like tank bags too much for days out riding.

Still leaning towards a standalone camera rather than a digital recorder, but they both have their advantages.

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

In his defence, the speed was down because as you come out of that corner you pull straight into the exit of the track.........

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

Regardless of quality and vibration issues, I tend to regard anything I strap to my trackbike as having to accept it is 'disposable' ... so strapping a ~£150 camera rig up to it is gonna seem much more attractive than strapping a £300+ kit to it ;)

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

Generally a hard drive will always been cheaper then solid state in capacity costs if you need a lot of space and are planning on getting alot of footage. But your much more at risk of failure or loss of data in a prang.
This is why the ATC2K is apealing, it seems to do a reasonalbe job for most people. I would say HD is the way most will need to go if they need more, Solid state drive are pricy tech, but if you can get a Sata HD in your recorder then give that a try as I have tested these to destruction and found them very robust. Even to the point I opened the case and it still spun up.

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

Hi mate, what cheaper alternatives would there be to the Cowon A3that you bought? ie, something that records at the same quality but maybe not so many other features or as big HDD? I want to take good quality vids but probably only an hour or so of recording at one time.

Thanks,
Matt

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

I got mine in from the US so it was cheaper - buying in the UK you are looking at £300 for the 30GB A3

The reason it can record at such a high res/bitrate is due to the processor in it which is a Dual-Core ARM which has one core optimised for AV coding/decoding.

Really dont know of anything lower in price that records as well as it does.

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

£280 On Amazon for the Cowon A3 60Gb...

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

Thanks for the correction of my typo :)

The other importer has the 80Gb one for £299, the 60GB one for £269 and the 30GB one for £229

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

I know precisely sod all about this subject, so I'm posting simply to vouch for the excellent quality of the camera and recorder/player that Dave has. Having seen a few other such cameras and related devices I wasn't expecting much - when I first saw it I was surprised at the picture, it's really very good.

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

It's only 'cause that price had stuck in my head 'cause I may have been looking at a cam setup ..... :p

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

I quite like the look of that, I'm after something for just the occasional vid of my favourite roads or something I can sling on the bike if I am doing a big rideout or want to records bits of road on along tour of something like that.

Sounds ideal for what I need I think...

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

Here's a surprisingly good single box option, the vholdr... This is a vid filmed by an SV Rider guy, nicely showing why helmet cams can suck- but very nice quality for a self contained cam. Very expensive though, £275 or thereabouts currently.

http://nichelob.smugmug.com/gallery/...738_u9bky-A-LB

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

Is it so expensive becasue of the playback functions? ie, becasue it has a good screen etc? I just want something that can record at good quality, but I'm not worried about playback on the unit, I just want to be able to transfer to my PC when I get back.

Tht 4Kam looks brilliant, just as good as a dogcam (or better) but seems cheaper. Does that DV1 recoder in the start-up package not record as good quality as the Cowon unit?

Thanks,
Matt

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

The gubbins that does the encoding (recording) is the same as that does the decoding (playback)

Yes the screen on the A3 is good, but the price difference between good screens and bad screens is not THAT much (as I understand it)

Read the blurb - see what all you get for your money with the Cowon

http://www.advancedmp3players.co.uk/...ponou76uvut3j1

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

I use a JXD 921 with a 420 line dogcam bullet camera. Battery life is around 4-5 hours, 5 is I'm playing music, 4 if I'm recording video. On the max setting (640x480 IIRC) it's roughly 1gb/hour. So generally, I have the 1gb internal memory with MP3s on it, and record to a 4gb card.

I have a 5v reg/rec on the bike that I can charge the JXD (either whilst in use or not in use). Total cost for that was probably £22ish. £20 for the regulator (get the expensive ones for Audio/Video use or you *will* affect the quality of the video when charging from the bike), then a couple of quid tops for the wire & connectors, nothing flash really.

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

I had spotted that unit on Dogcam and instantly dismissed it since it uses CMOS. Working with CCTV regularly, that is not a technology that normally appeals.

That footage is pretty damn good mate. Almost too good for a CMOS unit. I'm impressed really. Did you pop onto http://www.vholdr.com ? There are more vids on there and they look just as good although their server(s) seemed to be getting killed when I was on - ground to a halt.

One guy has done some night testing footage too - that's where CMOS usually falls flat on its face. I couldn't get to the vid though.


Cheers,

Garry:cool:

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

Thanks folks! Getting close to a decision now, I think it's down to a JXD (based entirely on price) and a reasonable camera, or a used mini-dv camera and a good bullet cam. Still thinking... But now I think I more or less know what to look for at least!

Yeah, you can see some of its limitations- the pulsing at the start from the flourescents, and occasional bits of tearing and things- but by and large it's pretty ace, better than a lot of "proper" cams. I'm pretty sure it's not a fake, considering the source (I automatically distrust all demo vids on a company's website and on youtube ;))

Too expensive just now, I think, and very limited in options, but then it's brand new- there's more brackets etc on the way apparently.

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

One thing northy JXD 921 are only usb 1.1 so that will be painfully slow to transfer to ure pc, it's only an over sight, but it's one i'd take in to consideration

Either way, i'm itching to get a decent set up my self

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

Is that just that one model? It's the 960 I'm thinking of currently, it's a little more expensive than most but has a removable battery- just waiting to get a price on that.

Re: Bulletcams/recorders again
 

Dude, just buy 2 cheaper ones ... you will have the same battery life as that one but with 2 batteries, one less point of failure and only 50% at 'risk' in an off ;)

p.s. I have 2 JXD638s