4 degree ignition advance does it work on a K6?
 

Evening ladies and gents.

I was looking through JHS archive website and I noticed I can advance my ignition by 4 degrees (possibly) will it do much or is it only for carbed bikes?

Also out of interest. How much would it cost to build up a fire breathing road motor big bore, cams, etc. I just had a crazy idea of throwing silly money at my cheap bike. Obviously I know everyone is going to say buy a faster bike but thats not the point. In my head its a Ducati 848 beater (that obviously costs probably more).

I Also saw some carbon fibre wheels in fast bikes has anyone ever had any and do they make a difference because they look awesome?

Thanks in advance:smt023

Re: 4 degree ignition advance does it work on a K6?
 

sorry to burst your bubble but it'll never happen, not for vaguely realistic money anyway:(

Re: 4 degree ignition advance does it work on a K6?
 

Of course it'll never happen. But as long as there is a chance I could chase silly horsepower from the little twin it could be a laugh. My logic behind it is as the bike was so cheap it's just worth keeping indefinitely and playing with as a hobby.

Has anyone acquired silly grunt from a road going SV? and how much did it cost?

oh and does the advance thing do anything to the K6?

Re: 4 degree ignition advance does it work on a K6?
 

if you're looking at doing that i'd dump the stock ecu and upgrade to something like a megasquirt or microsquirt.. allows you to tune your fuel and ignition curves very easily.. i think the new power comander type jobbies do a similar thing but arent as adjustable and DIYable.
getting that amount out of the engine you'll need to really go talking to JHS and dangerous dave off of this site. he has a rediculous bottom end on his sv which is the main weakness with the sv's engine.
obviously before you go doing things like this you really should be looking at upgrading the front end, the rear shock and the brakes. i've got a k2 gsxr750 front end on it's way which is easily good enough for the road.. rear shock wise people like ohlins, penske, techno-flex etc. brakes wise obviously the front end will come with new brakes most of which will serve VERY well on a road bike. then you'd be looking at getting an upgraded swinger due to the flex in the standard one... just upgrading the engine to stupid specs would not be worth while without upgrading the rest.
cheers
dan

Re: 4 degree ignition advance does it work on a K6?
 

The advance bit you're read about works by offsetting the flywheel on a curvy, which runs carbs. No use on a pointy which has fuel injection and therefore uses crank sensors instead. On a pointy all you need to do is get the ECU re-programmed, or put in something like a Power Commander which alters the message from the sensors to the ECU.
The only way you are going to get "silly" power increases from the SV engine is to go with a supercharger or turbo, but then you are building a time bomb. But at least that should help absorb some of that cash you are looking to burn. There was a thread on here some time ago from a chap at university doing it as a project, do a search or someone might be able to provide a link.

Re: 4 degree ignition advance does it work on a K6?
 

You can get another 10 bhp from an SV without going for major engine mods I think. If you want to turn your SV into a big-bike challenger, then its best to takle the easier-solved problems - suspension and brakes. Make your bike handle well, and along many tight and twisty roads you'll be in with a shot at showing up the bigger capacity bikes (providing your riding is up to it too!) - power on the twisties has to be usable; sure, Mr GSXR1000 has 160 bhp....but he wont be using it all :D you can make better use of your engine....and the engine braking :cool:

Other engine mods include big-bore converstions (700 cc, 750 cc) and swapping cam's etc.

A superchargd SV is a bold idea....but that would be awesome :smt049

Oh, RE: light wheels. Yes, this will affect the handling; by recuding the unsprung weight, and also by reducing the gyroscopic force of a rotating wheel (by having a lighter wheel), your suspension will work better, and your bike will be much easier to turn; maye also have an effect on acceleration (less force required to turn a lighter wheel) Can make things a bit "flighty" though...

Re: 4 degree ignition advance does it work on a K6?
 

it actually does same thing on both bikes.advance or retard timing.

Re: 4 degree ignition advance does it work on a K6?
 

I stuck a cheap Dymag magnesium wheel on the front of mine... The rear still isn't fitted but it will be some time. It makes a real difference- I'll be honest and say I can't use half of my bike's turning potential so I'm wasting some of the benefit, but it also makes it easier to turn the bike, easier to make corrections etc- so for one, riding fast over distance is far less tiring, and for another thing it serves as a nice safety net when I screw up :smt080

But you realise this is all proper madness, right? Seriously tuning an SV engine is a money sink, and it still won't be as potent as an 848 or an SV thou. 748 is doable I think, for probably round about twice the cost of a 748 :) Mainly because the 748 is heavy, for what it is.

You can make an SV into a better SV but that's really it- mine is a nice package I think, 80 rwbhp on a dynojet, very nice power delivery, 171 kilos (with all the fluids, none of your dry weight lies) when it's unfaired or about 175 when it's faired up... And pretty decent suspension to match. It works well, flatters my limited ability, and it's fun to ride and versatile, and was fun to build. But to push much past that you need to be either brave with the tuning or have very deep pockets, or a big stroke of luck.

Re: 4 degree ignition advance does it work on a K6?
 

From what I've read (from the svrider forum I think), the engine can cope with being boosted to about 90hp safely with big-bores, cams etc, but much above that and the crank is in danger of snapping

Re: 4 degree ignition advance does it work on a K6?
 

I see, just goes to show how amazing a resource the org actually is with all these answers. Perhaps a semi money pit option will be best then. Aim for about 90 Bhp with some trick bouncy bits and perhaps some posh wheels. Is it worth persevering with the stock front end or do I really just need to throw it away (on ebay) and install GSXR goodies?

And have we decided if the 4 degrees of advance will make any difference or not as I got conflicting answers..

Re: 4 degree ignition advance does it work on a K6?
 

A bit of difference, I'd do gsxr swap first

Re: 4 degree ignition advance does it work on a K6?
 

So the GSXR front end is far and away better than anything you can do with the standard pogo sticks then?

I was just gonna fit heavy springs (cos i'm heavy) and some thicker oil to the front and if that was still rubbish then throw on some emulators. THe reasoning behind this was that I want it to look almost standard but go stop and handle like a dream.

Re: 4 degree ignition advance does it work on a K6?
 

the thing with the gsxr front end is it's a well balanced package of suspension and brakes at a very affordable price.
if you think that with the gsxr front end you can sell all the sv parts you don't use and people have ended up making a profit out of the swop in the past. whereas if you fit emulators etc all your doing is spending money on a fork design that is old and dated.. the gsxr forks however are still pretty decent and have a pretty much "the skys the limit" look of upgrades available
dan

Re: 4 degree ignition advance does it work on a K6?
 

Do you want the long or the short answer? :)

Short answer is "yes, but".
Long answer is: You actually can polish a poo here. If you fire something like the Traxxion AK-20 cartridge internals into stock forks, they'll work very well. You could then add GSXR calipers, and improve that too. This'll give you a fork that's better than stock GSXR. At a cost of about £800 :bom:

But on the other hand... If you sell your SV parts, that makes the GSXR parts cheap- my swap would have actually made me money if I'd not blown the budget on bells and whistles. This gives you a pretty decent front end, it takes a lot to make an SV fork this good.

But... Are you the right weight? What condition are the forks? A GSXR fork, badly set up, isn't much of an upgrade. Not everyone fits nicely into the GSXR weighting, a big fat dude is going to need to spend money to rebuild the forks in order to get them working as good as they should. And maybe some of the parts will be faulty and need replacing.

I stand by the GSXR forks- mine are totally standard and they work pretty well. They could be better, but I'm happy with them. To get the same results from SV forks would cost a good bit more, even without the braking upgrade. And if I ever decide to upgrade, there's huge potential there for tuning them. It's good performance and it's good value.

Re: 4 degree ignition advance does it work on a K6?
 

Ah I get your point there then. Perhaps need to rethink the whole thing now then. I just assumed the GSXR conversion was mainly done for looks!
I'd need the whole front end off a gsxr then, does that mean I could put USD fork on?

Re: 4 degree ignition advance does it work on a K6?
 

It's also done for looks :smt080 If you wanted a sleeper-ish look you could go with slightly older GSXR600 forks, they're also less expensive but still perform well. I'm not too up on what works in the injected SV but I think the last of the 600 RWU forks would bolt straight in. That's a really nice look I think. I've got the gold K5 GSXR forks in now and I've never liked it, they work well but they're so cheesy looking.

Oh yeah. ignition advancer... You'll get conflicting answers, you can certainly fit it but the question is all about benefit. I fitted mine ages ago in an otherwise standard engine, and it felt good, no gain up top that I could detect but it seemed stronger down low. These days... Who knows, I've got too many mods going on :) I plan to remove mine though and see how it goes.

Zadar did a load of comparisons and concluded IIRC that ignition retard actually helps top end, not advance.

Re: 4 degree ignition advance does it work on a K6?
 

I see, so thats cleared the advance thing up (sort of). As you say i'm a fat dude. 6ft 3 and between 16 - 17 stone depending on the time of year. So I would probably have to rebuild GSXR forks with new springs etc. Which will cost more as you say.

I'm quite taken by the idea of gold forks though, they'll look great with the blue paint, some gold pazzo levers and gold rearsets. :o

It's definitely turning into a bit of a marmite bike in my head now. I'll either love it or hate it!

Re: 4 degree ignition advance does it work on a K6?
 

Super charger all the way :D :D :D

Re: 4 degree ignition advance does it work on a K6?
 

Ok,

I've done some research and drank some (2 bottles of) wine. I've decided the suspension is first and intend to go for the following.

Racetech springs 0.90kg
20w fork oil
Nitron Sport shock (with a spring for fatties)

If that doesn't fix the handling I may look into emulators but I have a feeling it will be fine. I've decided against the GSXR gear as i'll need to buy the forks then build them to suit me bulk.

Does this sound like a good spec for a fast road SV?

Re: 4 degree ignition advance does it work on a K6?
 

Well, it's a perfectly good road setup. But on the other hand, it's going to fall well short of the goals you'd set earlier ;) But it should do you pretty well. The SV forks aren't as bad as people say, just that they're very soft as standard. It's only once you start properly rebuilding them- emulators etc- that you run into value-for-money worries.

Incidentally, you should be able to find suitably stiff GSXR forks- they've got progressively stiffer over the last few years. I believe the 2006 forks have .9 springs in as standard in fact. Annoyingly, I'm going to have to have mine softened, since I'm so puny!

Re: 4 degree ignition advance does it work on a K6?
 

They sound like they could be up to the job if the springs are that firm. I'll get trawling flea bay.

Re: 4 degree ignition advance does it work on a K6?
 

Ok chaps i've weighed up all your great advice and i'm going for a nitron sport shock and racetech springs. That should keep my street sleeper theme going nicely. Quick question for northwind you mentioned in an earlier post other calipers fit the SV forks. What are they? Which GSXR calipers fit and do i need other bits? Master cylinder etc.

Re: xuanlu
 

:confused:

Re: 4 degree ignition advance does it work on a K6?
 

Dirtydog was the man to speak to, it might be SV Racing Parts now- brackets to fit the 4-pots off a GSXR750 Y-K3, or 600... K1-K3 maybe? Or the 6-pots off the K1-K2 thou I think but I don't like 'em, they're heavy, expensive, expensive to service if they need it, and give you more power than you need delivered with less subtlety than the 4-pots (which also give you more power than you need)

Master cylinders... Allsorts really. I like the recent R6 16mm Brembo, that's what's on mine now (and to put that in perspective, I fitted it to replace an ex-BSB billet Brembo from Rizla Suzuki :cool: Which was a better part but i like the 16mm)

Re: 4 degree ignition advance does it work on a K6?
 

Ok then, so standard brakes have plenty of power. That's fine by me then I quite like the look of the standard calipers. The shock is ordered now and i'm gonna order the fork springs tommorow. I read somewhere a while ago (but cant find it again :mad:) something about airgaps for the forks. how big a gap do i need and is 10w oil fine for 0.90 springs as the mechanic I used was asking how I wanted the forks built up.

Cheers for all the help, this forum knows everything!

Re: 4 degree ignition advance does it work on a K6?
 

I know with my Hagon fork springs it came with instructions on how much of an air gap to leave, so I imagine the racetech ones will be similar.