ID Cards
 

Can anyone see the point of them? Would anyone accept it?

I hope any airport workers on here will refuse them outright.

I will NEVER carry one, nor have any biometric data taken out of principle

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If it becomes a requirement to carry one then you wont really have a choice.

Not really got an opinion on them other than they cost way to much, and for that reason alone I think the idea that has already cost millions should be scrapped.

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?18 billion is the current estimate. But they'll make that back selling our details to third parties ;) (if they don't just 'find' it all on a laptop left on a train first)

I can not see why they would even slightly help. It's up to the British public to refuse to pay for this additional erosion to our liberties. I certainly won't carry one/give my details. I'll burn my fingerprints off if need be :rolleyes:

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There is plans for a retinal scan aswell, you gonna burns your eyeballs as well.

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They'd have to hold my cold dead body up to the machine ;)

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ID cards are not so bad, if done the right way (i.e., without throwing your civil liberties out the window).
We have compulsory ID cards with name, fingerprints (right index finger), parents names, date and place of birth, marital status and residence (only town name, not street / house number).

Can't really see a big problem with it, but I do see a shedload of advantages.

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that can be aranged:smt066

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Apart from the £20bn+ cost I assume.

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Guess I overlooked that one ;)

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What advantages? I can't see a single one.

As for civil liberties it just opens the door to abuse, and this government hardly has a good track record. I would bet everything I own on these cards being used to gather data dishonestly & covertly.


I wouldn't want to jump in the queue before you ;)

Re: ID Cards
 

I don't mind them. I have always carried one. In Germany it is compulsory to carry your ID card. The data on them is not biometric, with the eye scan/fingerprint and all that jazz, but they do record height/eye colour and so on.

I think it's a good idea to carry them, means that everyone can identify themselves at all times (40 euros if you don't have it on you). In England it is just all too easy to use the cop out of not having a driving license, and thus the police have no real idea who you are.

It's also really handy if you are travelling. I haven't had a passport in years. If I travel inside the EU there is no point in me having a passport. The card is cheaper to produce, and a large proportion of English folk won't need full passports anyway because they won't travel outside the UK/Europe.

I have no objections to carrying a card in the UK, so long as the information contained on it is used wisely (ie, not left on public transport). In Germany it works well. Then again, I would think it's great, I'm part of a population that was repressed/locked up for the best part of half a century and where the government is pretty good at "people control" - Carrying a card is not really the issue here.

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can anybody tell me how it will be an advantage to me, mr joe average? how will it make my life easier?

ok when i say average, i'm not really average...

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+1.

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Just remember there is no technology that they will use that is not vulnerable to a powerful magnet/and or 5 secs in the microwave.....

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They serve no purpose what so ever. It is yet another of Blairs bad ideas. A few businesses up here have been done for illegals in the curry factories etc. An ID card would not stop it as their employers know they are illegal.

They then say it is for entitlement. for things such as NHS service. Does that mean I won't get treated at my local hospital if I don't produce one. Of course not.

I could understand if there was one card that replaced your driving licence, passport etc. I am not a convicted criminal, so why should I give finger prints to anyone.

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I think most folks don't really object in principle to having some sort of ID, we have driving licences etc anyway. I'd be happy to have a simple ID card which cost a fiver. But it's not being done for the benefit of the individual.

What is different here is that the system the UK govt is going for is a mega data-base with everything you could imagine on it. Problems with this start when you consider
a) the cost - double it and add a nought and you're getting close - we're paying gazillions for the system and then a huge amount for the card itself (what does a passport cost these days??)
b) the Govt track record of screwing IT projects up
c) the Govt track record of losing data
d) the potential for linking it to other systems - big brother
e) the potential for causing individuals untold grief when they get the data wrong and you get branded with incorrect criminal records etc etc. I bet it will be a nightmare/impossible to get errors corrected

We simply can't trust the Govt, full stop. It won't actually achieve much.

(PS - my cousin was recounting the tale of woe he is currently undergoing regarding dealing with a pension tax credit application, just unbelievable...............brewery, pi$$-up?? no chance....)

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Why do you need ID for walking down the street? Permissions to use certain equipment (driving licenses) are a completely different matter.

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Having a huge database of personal data, accessible by government agencies everywhere will be so open to abuse. You'll create a huge trail of data of every transaction made in your life, every move you make and human you interacted with.

So what benefit will we have?
Less identity fraud? ...no
Identity fraud will go through the roof as data theft will be available in so many places and this card is adopted as a single measure of identity.
Reduced terrorism?...
How would they have stopped a single attack? All they could do is incriminate yourself by being 'linked' to a person through your own data trail on file.

All that would happen is it would expand the totalitarian nature of this shambles of a government. Stopchecks in the street to produce your card- or be fined. A blackmarket of ID cards bringing in more illegals and creating a market for ID card mugging. Unfair prosecution based solely on data. God forbid you lose your card and can't prove your identity!

All this on top of paying through your teeth for these 'privileges'



Dissuade; Germany's cards aren't quite comparable. They're not stored centrally (under law) and they don't link the data obtained up. I wouldn't be happy with that either however.

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The data is already being collected covertly. You apply for a passport - you give them these details that they'll store until the ID Cards introduction.

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But this is exactly why I first stated that if done right, without affecting civil liberties, could actually be an advantage. Not like that, of course.

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Yes in the same way communism done right could be an advantage.

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Communism done right would be the perfect political doctrine (if you could take people out of the equation) :lol:

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Everyones equal, just some people are more equal than others ;)

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I really cant see the issue people have with ID cards. I think they are a good idea, just an extension of your Passport. How long before that has biometric data on it, would you refuse that then out of principle??

Oh and how many of you carry ID cards in one form or another to get into work or other places .I am willing to bet 99% of you. So what makes these so different?

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:shock:

I need to go lie down for a while...

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Apathy like that is exactly what the government is counting on. :???:

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Its not apathy, I have one for my Military ID and it has some personal details on it, blood group etc. SO what is the big leap from your passsport having biometrics cos they will in due time and carrryng an ID card.

to me the people who are objecting are beein bloody minded and obstenant for th sake of it cos the Government has told them they must have one they are refusing!!

f**king grow up!!!

Re: ID Cards
 

Oh neio, you know how to provoke am argument don't you.

The people of Britain have told the government they don't need them, they don't want the expense, they don't want the bureaucracy and most of all the don't want the compulsion.

Nobody but the government can see a purpose/use/advantage to an ID card. But typical of the government we have. do they listen. Do they hell. If they did try to make them compulsory and force the tax paying public to buy them, there would be more marchers than against Maggies community charge.

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Your military ID was volentary for a start. But anyway, the information if contains is limited, and that limited information is restricted to a limited number of people.

ID cards will contain everything, and will available to all government departments - hundreds of thosands of people. Within 3 months it'll be left on a park bench and then limitless information will be available to anyone.

And before you say "so what", think of the hastle that can happen if your number plate gets cloned, then multiply it by 50.

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from what i've heard/read/made up, all the information on your I.D card will be passed on to a thrid party. basically the highest bidder.

is that what you want? im not so sure......

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+1 - I was in an O2 shop doing an upgrade the other week and they had an acceptable ID form posted to the wall - the guy went to the stockroom to get the phone (A Samsung SGH-F480 Tocco - not an idiotPhone) and I was bored so I read it.

They can take a photocopy of my credit card, of my driving license, but they are not allowed to copy a Forces ID card

So your card is better protected by Law than the common or garden public ID card would be.

I can see a LOT of pluses to an ID card, including it being a way to get a grip on the immigration problem, but I dont trust the current government with anything at all, every new thing that thay have brought in have been aimed at reducing freedom and increasing their control.

Still I guess you have been trained to listen and obey when someone gives an order Neio..............

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:D;) yep!!!

yes you are right , but ours can also be left on a bench and cause a hassle if found and used for the wrong reasons.

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But that's your card, your responsibility and you're the one that'll suffer if it gets lost.

With ID cards, when the information gets lost, which it will, millions of people will suffer and it wont be the people whos responsbility to look after that data that'll suffer.

In fact, if we're forced to have ID cards, I hope someone with the ability makes it their mission to corrupt the data of every minister (and their families) responsible - and I hope it makes their lives a missery.

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There is no correlation between cards issued to the Forces and those foisted upon citizens. Obfuscating the argument like that is one of the techniques used by the government when they tell us they are a good idea.

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maybe i a mmissing something here, but if you had an ID card and lost it then its also your responsability and only you who will suffer as well, only your data is on it.

you losing your ID card wont effect me will it , any more than me losing mine wil effect you.

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We're talking about a database logging every personal physical detail linked with your address, your tax records, your bank statements, your movements, habits, mobile phone records, internet browsing history, associates....

A database on this scale has never been attempted before, it's a huge feat! Every large database created so far shirinks in comparison (such as the NHS 'attempt') has run iN to billions over budget early on and failed miserably.

There is no way this could ever ever be made safely or would present any advantage to the working man. All this will do is enable easier identity theft for crooks and allow the government to ruthlessly spy on you. Can you imagine being prosecuted electronically?! A database providing the sole evidence against you!

And as for how this would help against illegal immigration I have no idea how. If we were really interested in stopping it we could cut it a huge number of ways practically overnight. We're an island nation ffs!

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When I talk about losing ID information, I'm not talking about the card its self, (which I'm sure would be another unnecessary problem created by being forced to have them), I'm talking about the central database where all the information on everyone is held.

If that gets compromised, which it inevitably would, it would be a disaster.

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Yes of course it would be, but no more than if the Passport agency lost all its data, that hasent happend (yet)

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The big questions are as yet unanswered, like what will the "authorities" use the card for, at what point will it become necessary to have a card (even if it's not technically compulsory) in order to be able to do certain things, "no card...no can do", if the card says "no" will you be prevented from doing certain things, or even be detained for 42days without charge? Maybe not a problem for me, white middle aged etc, but I wouldn't want to be of the tinted persuasion once the system is up and running (no offence to anyone, on your side here, just a turn of phrase for literary effect)

People stopped in vehicles by ANPR gestapo because the database says there's no insurance get the car confiscated, end of, even when the dbase is wrong. You have to prove you are innocent, guilt is "proven" by virtue of the dbase .....and this is happening now. Just wait till the ID card is in force, it won't be your car whisked off, it'll be you...........

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Not the same at all. We're talking about a card that will be used to track your daily movements - passports don't do that.

Once criminals clone ID cards, they could start claming benefits, running up council tax bills and doing god knows else what in your name.

And I'm sure you're well aware that once a government body has it in their head that you've done/not done something, getting to change their mind is next to impossible - so you'll be lucky if you ever clear your name.