DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

A mate has foolishly been driving his van uninsured and clipped a parked car pulling away a couple of weeks back. He claims not to of thought it was anything other than banging mirrors, but when he saw the damage to his van (knackered headlight and trim) he went back to try and leave a note on the window. Unfortunately, the car he clipped had gone. He drove off thinking no more about it, but a few days later got a letter in the post asking him to confirm he was the driver at the time and charging him with DWDC and leaving the scene of the accident. Perhaps most critically, it asked for his insurance details: At the time of the accident he was uninsured. It was a residential street so presumably a neighbour of the owner of the car he hit saw it and reported it.

He knew of my interest in traffic law so rang me for advice. I advised him not to try anything like buying insurance now and filling those details in as it'd be very easy (if not automated) for them to look up and see the start date as after the accident and it'll only get him into more trouble and possibly an additional charge of insurance fraud.

At the moment he hasn't received anything from the person whose car he hit. He's hoping this means he'll just get the existing charges and hear no more about it, but I imagine as soon as he confirms it was him, the police will pass on his details to the other party.

I suggested that I imagine he'd need to go to court and should seek legal representation once the court summons comes through, if not sooner. I've told him that he's probably best off admitting guilt and the fact the fact he had no insurance ASAP as it'll all come out in the wash and the magistrates are likely to be more lenient the more cooperative he is. I explained about the pot which insured drivers hit by uninsured drivers are paid out of, but didn't know whether or not this prevented the third party from pursuing civil proceedings against him. He has only been driving cars and vans a short time, but has had a bike licence for much longer, so I've explained the 6 point/probational ban rule doesn't apply to him. He doesn't need a van for work at the moment, so I also told him to check insurance quotes online with DWDC and leaving the scene of an accident added and if they come to silly money he can't afford, to sell the van now as again it can only endear him to the magistrates.

Anything else I should pass onto him, or is anything I've told him so far bad advice? TIA.

Must importantly, what sort of punishment/penalty is he looking at?

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

Bend over, insert credit card.

IMO, he should be expecting a hefty fine and lots of points minimum. Selling the van is a good idea as it'll help provide cash for the fine.

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

No sympathy.

If someone had posted up about having been taken out by a young van driver with no insurance we would be saying what a w-anchor the driver had been.

Sorry but thats how it is.

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

Probably only 6-9 point, but I personally would imprison him for life

I cannot abide people who drive without insurance, they know they need it and stupidly think they can get away with it. The MIB fund does not adequately compensate victims of uninsured drivers. Why should the innocent suffer if he hurts someone.

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

Thus we get to the Great British roots of justice :D

Bend over, insert thornbush, ended with Credit Card.

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away, I was once a young(er) tearaway.

My own bikes were and always have been insured and legal, but at aged 17 the opportunity to ride a race trim SS400 down the M69 seemed to somehow have lots of positives and no negatives. In addition to the speeding (no speedo), the lack of reg plate, slick tyres, no lights, there was obviously also no insurance.

No crash, but that's not really the point. I "got off" extremely luckily in hindsight, I got 6 points and something like a £300 fine (this was back when you were allowed your full 12 points as soon as you got a licence) - the fine hurt a hell of a lot more than it sounds like it should have done thank to crushing poverty at the time but again, with hindsight it was definitely on the low side.

Throughout I played the "fair cop, jeez what an idiot I've been" line. It was a fair cop, and yep I'd been a complete idiot. But folks involved in the process often seemed genuinely suprised that I wasn't trying some bonkers "my speedo, lights and reg plate all must have fallen off; oh and the apparent lack of insurance must be some computer error (again, this was back before the joined up easy police access insurance database gubbins)".

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

Personally due to the nature of the incident and the fact that it is ongoing he will best off going straight to finding himself some proper legal advice, not just hearsay from a few individuals/mates with the best intentions.

I believe people like that should get spit-roasted by the courts but more often than not he'll get an overly lenient result, likewise with Timwilky and soulkiss I've no sympathy at all. Its one thing to knock mirrors on a lane when both vehicles are moving, but to smash your light and trim then leave without checking only to find you are insured after all that....if it looks bad to us then how will it look to a court?


Make sure he gets proper legal advice.

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

Maximum penalties:

-Driving without insurance: 6-8 points, discretionary ban, fine upto £5000
-Leaving the scene of an accident: 5-10 points, discretionary ban, fine upto £5000 or upto 6 months imprisonment
-DWDC: 3-9 points, discretionary ban, fine upto £2500

Source = internet so make of it what you will, but i'd buy him soap-on-a-rope for his birthday this year...

As above, no sympathy, you don't just "clip" another vehicle hard enough to break trim and lights and not feel it...

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

I would suggest with any luck points or a ban. I hope the court does the sesiable thing and removes his licence of him.


There is no reasonable excuse for not having insurance, oh the MIB pot of money where da ya think that comes from? Who do you think is paying for damage to other car? What would have happened if he hit someone would still have driven off?

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

As minimatt says, my own experiences show that the courts are generally grateful when you hold up your hand and don't mess them about/stall/try to weasel out of it. I think my friend realises this and hopefully will behave the same way.

I don't think he'll be driving anytime soon regardless of the outcome. No NCB and all those offences= sky high premium he won't be able to afford. He also isn't stupid enough that he'd do it a second time.

I've explained this to him (and that this is part of the reason insurance is so costly). I've also explained that both my bike and my car are still damaged from exactly this sort of thing (both hit whilst parked and people just drove off) and that I cannot afford to get either repaired to their previous condition and that my previous car was written off by someone crashing into it whilst it was parked (although thankfully they were insured and rang house doorbells till they found whose car it was).

Knowing him as well as I do, I can say that there is zero chance he would have driven off if he'd hit someone. He has been stupid, no doubt about it, but he realises and I can tell he is very sorry and not just because he has been caught. If he was being cocky about it, I'd not help him.

Carlos: I'm not making excuses for him, but I've driven a large van and clipped things (fortunately inanimate objects owned by by my employer!) and it's staggering how much more damage a v. low speed nudge can do than in a car. That said, I agree that I think he probably panicked and drove off, but I am prepared to believe him when he says he was genuinely surprised when he saw the damage to his own van. Likewise, I believe him that when saw this he realised how bad the damage to the other vehicle could have been and went back to leave a note (with the intention of settling outside insurance), which is admirable.

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

Tell him to buy a pushbike!

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

He had no insurance that would have been his only way out.

Ch00

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

It's the going back when he realised the extent of the damage that I considered admirable; not the settling outside insurance! :)

Madness: He's a keen cyclist anyway; looks like that's how he'll be getting to work from now on.

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

If he can sit down on a cycle seat after his trip to prison......

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

that sounds more like trying to get out of trouble more than doing the admirable thing.

If he truely cared about doing the right thing he wouldnt have driven off.

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

I wouldn't be surprised if the ole' boy had his license revoked for a few months anyways so getting insurance in the short term isn't really going to make much of a difference..

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

I suggest you pm ED asap and ask his advice, ( he's a solicitor in case you didn't know).

Daryl.

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

Just deny it was him and that the van couldn't have been there as it had no insurance and that would be illegal.

He wasn't there, the person must be mistaken...

Joke, maybe, maybe not. We had someone claim we hit their car. Letter from insurance company and everything.

We we're like, yeah come and see the car then, its brand new, theres no damage, we live about 6 hours away from claimed accident, but sure, yeah, it was us.....

Nothing more was heard

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

Seriously doubt he'll get jail time for that. Plenty of points/ban and fine though!

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

That will depend mostly on whether "an example" is needed or not.

Personally I think he should, especially if its a mentioned in sentencing guidelines - it would be guaranteed to be on the front pages of the tabloids.

However in hindsight it wouldn't prompt the chavs to go get insurance - it would just have them go on about the in-justice.

Also on the other hand, no-one got hurt, so fine him, make him pay for the repairs and ban him for a couple of years is probably more relevant.

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

My son was pulled up whilst driving without insurance. He pleaded guilty by post, got 8 points & £260 fine.
Leaving the scene as well could have other consequences, cant help on that one, but as someone said before, tough ti*ties, he should be insured so dont have much sympathy. I did say the same to my son as well.

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

I think that is a little harsh and unrealistic in the scale of things. He hasn't injured or killed anyone, he hasn't even done that much damage to the other vehicle, do you not think that a stay in prison is too much? What will happen to him will primarily depend on the scale of his crime, nothing to do with example. I don't agree with what hes done at all, if he had been that worried he could have reported it to the police himself at the first opportunity (cover thine own a*se) but he didn't and now he is paying for it,or will be soon, however a custodial sentence at the taxpayers expense is a bit too much.


This I totally agree with though.

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

Hopefully while you were beating the snot out of him with a cricket bat...........

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

Hence the last line of mine that you quoted.

The reason I mentioned a custodial sentence was that it SHOULD be a deterrent to other people thinking about driving without insurance, as I believe that the penalties for doing wrong should be as much a deterrent as they are a punishment, the current governement/police policy seems to be "stop crime from happening by making it impossible (cameras etc)" rather than make people realise that crime does not pay.

However I realise that even a short time in prison - many of which are more like hotels/holiday camps due to the facilities given to prisoners - is not much of a deterrent these days.

What I was trying to say is something should be done that would make others think twice, but I realise that to do that, it would be out of proportion for what he actually did.

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

He's that thick he did it again 12 months later, said he forgot about renewing it. Has now got a 6month disqualification £400 fine & 16 points.
I would like to know what my milkman looked like 24 years ago, I'm sure my eldest isnt of my loins :roll::roll::):p;)

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

sckusey, what does dwdc mean nen?

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

Driving without due care (me thinks)

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

-Driving without insurance: 6-8 points, discretionary ban, fine upto £5000

thats black and white he either had insurance or he didnt.

-Leaving the scene of an accident: 5-10 points, discretionary ban, fine upto £5000 or upto 6 months imprisonment ,

it has to be proved that he knowingly left the scene or a had a reasonable suspicion that he had an accident, you cant be done for leaving the scene if you couldnt reasonably have known you had a bump, how you prove it either way i dont know.

-DWDC: 3-9 points, discretionary ban, fine upto £2500,

again has to be proved that you were driving without due care, from a "conversation" i recently had with a traffic cop , west yorks at least will only pursue for DWDC if it was witnessed by a police officer.

rights or wrongs of whats happened im not going to get into, but in my experience the POlice have a habit of throwing lots of charges and hoping one sticks.

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

In our local paper today a lad was convicted of failing to stop after a road accident, failing to report a road accident, DWDC, driving other than in accordance with his licence and driving without insurance.

He was fined £275 with £50 costs, was given 6 points, and ordered to pay £300 in compensation.

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

Bit of an update, as agree he returned all the paperwork admitting guilt, declared he had no insurance at the time of the accident, etc. he has decided not to sell the van yet as he might be able to afford insurance after the points/ban. I have explained that with speeding, the summons can take up to 6 months to come through (the swine got me with about 2 days to spare), but that I had no idea how long it would be for his charges. If it's likely to be more than a month or two, he wants to insure his van and use it in the interim as otherwise the effective ban could last months longer than necessary. I did explain that he needs to notify the insurer of any pending convictions when arranging insurance and he seems to accept this.

Anyone got an idea of timeframe before he can expect a court summons/the next step of the prosecution?

As to sentencing; I think jail would be a bit harsh (not to mention highly unlikely in this case), but think ban, fine and a subsequent big insurance hike are in order.

Lissa: Looking in the "In the courts" section of the paper that seems fairly normal. Nuts really, as that's pretty much what I got for speeding, which aside from being completely safe, involved no one else at all.

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

AFAIK this is only if you cannot trace the driver at fault, rather than a pot so those who aren't insured don't have to pay for accidents.

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

Just spoke to my policeman friend and he said he is likely to get 6 points and an 8 week ban for driving without insurance, 3 points for leaving the scene and 3 points for DWDC.....all topped off with around a £400 fine and ordered to pay the cost of repair to the vehicle he hit.

So.....he won't go to prison, but he will most likely get a ban, fine and a fair few points!

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

Looks like a ban and plenty of the folding stuff to be handed over too...

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

even if the court does not order compensation for the damage to the car, the car owner can still take a civil case out againt him to regain the money..ie excess etc

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

I would if I was in their position!

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

Ta for that Gruntygiggles.

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

What he gets on the day in court is dependent on the judge and the individuals personal circumstances. So whatever he gets I am sure he will learn his lesson...hopefully..

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

Yes, talking to him about it again last week, the fright alone seems to have taught him his lesson. Anything else he gets will be a "bonus" incentive not to do it again. ;)

Re: DWDC, Driving w/o insurance, leaving the scene of an accident
 

Which in the end is the purpose of a punishment. We're always told that there are thousands of uninsured drivers on the roads, but I certainly wouldn't want to face the music if I got caught for it. There's no excuse, and the police should clamp down more, try to catch more people for it.

Your mate obviously knew it could end badly but still took the risk, he can have no complaints, and it sounds as if he does not. Credit to him for accepting the consequences with good grace, but as above - no sympathy for him really.