Would you consider this theft or a public service?
 

Picture the scene. Small block of flats comprising of 7 properties. A motorbike chain locked with a padlock around a shelter support. The chain has been there for more than two years and hasn't been touched. The owner of the chain isn't a resident and hasn't been seen in the same amount of time.

If someone were to grind off the padlock and take the chain for themselves would this be wrong?

Who would consider it making use of old rubbish and who would consider it theft?

Re: Would you consider this theft or a public service?
 

Me - recycling

Law - probably theft

Re: Would you consider this theft or a public service?
 

+1

Re: Would you consider this theft or a public service?
 

Can it be removed WITHOUT removing the padlock?

If so, do that and hand it into the police - if no-one claims it I think you can.

Even if you have to pick the lock I would do that.

Means you are 100% in the clear.

I guess you could grind the lock, and then hand in the chain saying thats how you found it.

Thats probably the best way of doing it.

Mind you, after 2 years weathering, is the chain worth the effort?

Re: Would you consider this theft or a public service?
 

I was going to say, do it at night so no-one sees you, but thinking about it - do it during the day. You'll look less suspicious and less likely to get any attention even if anyone walks past you.

That is *if* you're sure that no-one uses the chain during the day when you're working.


Thinknig about it, there're a couple of chains of mine kicking about the place. One at an old workplace & one around the garden wall of an old house. No idea where the keys are.

Re: Would you consider this theft or a public service?
 

I would of thought someone i.e the owner would need to report it stolen for it to 'be stolen'!!!

Like someone above said do it, hand it into police then when no one claims it which they won't it will become yours!

Re: Would you consider this theft or a public service?
 

possession is 9ths of the law... maybe? besides you are probably doing your duty in removing dumped rubbish

Re: Would you consider this theft or a public service?
 

I'd recycle it.

Re: Would you consider this theft or a public service?
 

If you're that bothered, type up an official notice signed by the property management company saying that if this eyesore is not removed within a week/month it will be removed by the management and the owner charged for it's removal.

If you are that confident that it's not in use, I would just help myself after a couple of years.

Re: Would you consider this theft or a public service?
 

Anyone asks you what your doing just tell them you lost your keys and that your getting your chain off.. how can they prove it is or isnt yours...

Re: Would you consider this theft or a public service?
 

It may be theft, it may not, depending on a few points, and I don't want to go into it all as I'll be here all day.
Do you know who it belongs to, more importantly do you know if they would allow you to take it or not? Abandoned you say? But it is secured with a padlock not simply dumped in the street, how do you know that said owner won't come back for it? Theft is a lot more complex than just taking something, and no it doesn't need to be reported to class as stolen.



By and large, if you can take it to a police station without damaging it to remove it then report it as lost property and if its not claimed you will be allowed to take it.

Re: Would you consider this theft or a public service?
 

You would have thought wrong.

I'd take it.

Re: Would you consider this theft or a public service?
 

if you "TAKE" a car and the ownere doesnt notice, thats still theft.

however if its been there ages and abandoned id have it away, but, is a chain thats been weathering for 2 years really worth the bother??

Re: Would you consider this theft or a public service?
 

Me - recycling

Law - vague on this believe it or not. From my security days i can tell you this much...the Theft Act defines theft as "to deprive the owner of his/her goods with the intention to permanently deprive"

That is why the laws of Taking Without Owners Consent etc were introduced cos you can always say you took the chain as it was an eyesore and you were keeping it safely for the owner until he returned. Never at any time did you intend to deprive him of this chain permanently, you simply took it away for safe keeping and on seeing the owner you would have rushed out to him and told him you had his chain.

hence you have commited no offence...except for criminal damage of course where you cut the lock off but again if you offer to replace the lock the you have not commited an offence ;)

Also any sane cop (if you can find any that is) will agree that 2 yrs is an unreasonable amount of time to leave something as an eyesore and clearly the owner has no intention to return to collect it anyway so you simply did a community spirited thing ;)

Re: Would you consider this theft or a public service?
 

I'm glad most of you went for option b as someone had already taken a grinder to it! I can't see somoene handing in to the police to look after for three months however.

Re: Would you consider this theft or a public service?
 

Close but this would not win you Bully's Star Prize tonight. Theft Act 1968 - "A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it; and ‘theft’ and ‘steal’ shall be construed accordingly." Not far off though :thumbsup:

Again very close, but TWOC is about motor vehicles, basically joy-riding, chains do not come under it. Intent is the main key here.

It is still an offence of criminal damage, whether you offer to replace it or not.

You are probably right, a little discretion goes a long way, but if someone does claim to own it and reports it gone then you are going to get a knock on the door. Though its just an old chain and probably is abandoned in all likelyhood.

Re: Would you consider this theft or a public service?
 

How can anyone prove that you took it?
Just get the padlock off, lift the chain and hey presto..

Meh, after 2 years outside, really worth the effort?

Re: Would you consider this theft or a public service?
 

Are you sure the chain isnt there to stop someone stealing the shelter? :grin:

(obviously not because its probably not chained to something else - but couldn't resist :D)

Re: Would you consider this theft or a public service?
 

Oh I remember writing undergraduate essays on the Theft Act for dear old Mr Rayburn, this is Manchester Poly 1983. The Act was supposed to tidy up the old common law of larceny but in fact it introduced even more complications as the prosecutor has to prove all six of the constituent parts. If you nick a can of beans from Tescos it's easy, but in this case I think that 'belonging to another' would cause difficulty. After all that time the owner has abandoned all ownership rights to the extent that it could not be said to be 'belonging to another'. Agree with PC Carlos therefore;)

Re: Would you consider this theft or a public service?
 

Lol i don't think that SOMEONE has anything to worry about TBH

Re: Would you consider this theft or a public service?
 

A public service? No.

Theft? Well, as you're not taking someone's possession away (assuming you're correct in that it's been abandoned), no.

But I would call it greed. If you want a chain, buy one. As others have said, a chain that's been in the effects of the weather for two years?

If you want to remove the "eyesore," fine, grind the lock off & throw the chain in the bin.

Re: Would you consider this theft or a public service?
 

I'm not greedy Baph but I like to make use of things which would otherwise be wasted. The chain I've been using belongs to a mate who can now have it back.

Re: Would you consider this theft or a public service?
 

Have it, if anyone whinges, give it back.

Re: Would you consider this theft or a public service?
 

:smt043