Daytime MOT - Police view
 

Does anyone know for CERTAIN how the police view bikes with no lights at all?

I got stopped tonight and they said they were not sure whether it was legal or not. I told them about the mot and how I am not to use the bike at "times of seriously reduced visibility" - as it says on the mot advisory note.

They said something about how all bikes manufactured after 1989ish must have lights on them. And they thought I should at least have a brake light. I said that if I had a brake light, then I would also need to have all the other lights to pass the mot.

They are going to check it out and let me know. In the mean time I have to hand in my mot certificate and advisory note

Has this happened to anyone else?

Re: Daytime MOT - Police view
 

I have had words with a bobby in a panda car about the lack of lights on my CBR - I told him to call up traffic and ask them if he didn't believe it could be ridden legally like that and he wouldn't. In the end I actually called my MOT man up on my own phone and had him talk to the copper to explain the law.

There's no way I'd give up my MOT certificate and advisory. If they want to make copies then fair play, but it belongs to me and they have no right to take it from me for any trumped up reason. Get a decent lawyer if they start to push things down the prosecution route, and make them look stupid in court if it comes to it.

Re: Daytime MOT - Police view
 

They said they were going to check it out with my mot place. So did they admit that it was legal?

Re: Daytime MOT - Police view
 

Found this on Visordown for you, from this thread: http://www.visordown.com/forum/forum...UTN=175733&V=2

im an mot tester and your bike has to have ALL the lights or NONE of the lights, and it doesnt need a horn or mirrors either for a daylight mot. but it does need a full size number plate, helps keep the feds at bay. ive got a daylight use only r6 and ive never been pulled even in wales!!!

Weather or not you wanna believe this guy or anything you find on Visordown is up to you of course.

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My understanding is you should not have a brake light for a daytime MOT

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My mot tester said I needed a horn and a reflector only

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Mate i know nothing,

Just found that thread and within the first few posts they were contradicting each other so i thought it might be interesting for you.

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I knew day time MOT's existed, but I find it amazing that you dont need at least a brake light, even for your own safety.

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I know this was the case a few years ago - and I can't see it having changed between then and now.

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PM Bluepete he's a traffic officer, he's probably the best person to ask.

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This wouldn't happen to be tayside police that pulled you by any chance. They seem to be having a big purge on bikers at the moment. Plates, exhausts, Visors (not doing the tint test) No bsi kite mark then fail.. daylight sunny with clear visor in visor bag, does not matter. Rumour is they have a new boss who seems to be anti bike, not making them popular (even with the other forces) so be carefull if you are riding up that way.

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Yes it was tayside police. They didn't mention my slightly smaller than normal plate, or the "reprobate" slogan on it

Re: Daytime MOT - Police view
 

I think the way to approach this is ask if the motorbike fits the definition of a motor vehicle, that being a mechanically propelled vehicle that is intended or adapted for road use. If it does then it has to be registered with the DVLA and you need insurance and a driving licence to ride it on a road. The next thing to look at is when the bike was manufactured, what lighting did it come with?
Your answer with regard to lighting lays within the road lighting regulations 1989, the exemptions are contained within 4-9A....

What you need to remember is MOT regulations are different from those of the used by the police, construction and use, lighting regulations etc. if you have no lights and that's how your motor vehicle was manufactured then you would not commit an offence during daylight hours. However you could commit other offences for not having obligatory lamps if your vehicle is not exempt.

Hope this helps

Fraser01

Re: Daytime MOT - Police view
 

I've seen someone get pulled for this on telly. Low and behold he was within his rights and was legal but by the time the old bill had figured that out it was night time :rolleyes:

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I rang the MOT testing station a couple of days ago to check my greenlaner. Maybe the rules are different again for these bikes but he said I didnt need to fit indicators back on but I needed a full size plate. It has brake lights, headlight and horn. It's booked in for Saturday so Ill ask some more questions and find out if there are any issues.

In sayig that I rang Jack Lilleys and they said the bike had to have all the original lights and switch gear re-fitted.... but gut feeling is he wasnt up to speed.

Re: Daytime MOT - Police view
 

The police have (comparatively few) special officers trained as vehicle inspectors who know the regs inside out, to the level of an MOT and SVA tester. I doubt your typical traffic officer is any more likely to be well informed than we are about construction/type approval regulations. Some of them don't know the subtleties of plate size rules off the top of their head. When they see someone riding a bike they think might be illegal, but not actually marked with "not for road use", nor excessively loud, they usually detain people till one of the vehicle inspectors is free. I saw on one traffic cop program where they detained a chap out riding on his early R1 trackbike (insured, taxed, completely road legal, albeit daylight MOT). They thought it was illegal because of the lack of lights, indicators, etc. they called out the vehicle inspector. 2-3 hours later when he arrived and decreed it fine, it was getting dark and the poor chap was forced to get a mate to come out in a van to collect him and the bike as it would then have been illegal for him to ride it. Absolute nuggets. The local force should have been made to pay for van hire to have it taken home, sent all traffic officers basic construction regulation training and issued a formal apology for the inconvenience to the chap concerned. Instead, they had a bit of a chuckle about how it was illegal to ride it now and maintained that, "well it might be legal, but it's stupid to ride without lights and he shouldn't be doing it". Which is just about the most backhanded admittance of being in the wrong I've seen.

Not having a rant at traffic cops in general, by and large I think they're pretty good and some of them know their stuff, but fundamentals about what is/isn't road legal is integral to their role in policing the roads and should be included in their basic training (with periodic retesting thereafter).

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Any decent copper that didn't know the answer there and then should ask for advice from the control room before making any desions. I dont know anything about daytime MOTs but have asked for advice in the past before making choices.

Ch00

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Yup, i've checked this recently as I wanted a track bike on daytime mot.

Rear brake light
horn
Indicators needed (IF SWITCH GEAR IS ON BIKE, otherwise not needed).

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You 100% on that? It might have changed in the past couple of years, but you didn't use to have to have brake lights, circa 2005. This was confirmed by a vehicle inspector police officer BTW, not hearsay.

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Well your on the road, so common sense dictates that its a good idea to let the vehicle behined know you are slowing.

Local bike MOT tester said about it when I asked this exact question.

Kinda makes sense, "im just gonna hit the brakes WACK goes the car up your ass cos he didn't have a clue you were braking"

But then its common sense, so being in the UK, its probably not the case.

Re: Daytime MOT - Police view
 

my understanding as if it had a light front or rear then it needed the other (ie if you had the back you need a front and vice verses).

Indicators are a seperate issue, if you have them then they are legally required to work. But there is not a legal requirement for you to have them in the first place.

I've not heard the switchgear part before, how could they tell with out stopping you if you had one or not.

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The issue of switchgear comes down to the disconnected argument, if there is switch gear then the lights must have been disconnected and therefore not eligible for a daytime only MOT.

So in theory, you should have a dedicated race type loom that does not have any wiring for lights etc.

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I'm with you ch00, If I have not been quiet sure I have always called someone in the know. We are only human at the end of the day and trying to remember everything we are expected to know is impossible.

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Or jsut remove the switchgear and wiring and its not like the copper will know.

I've just written the facts form a bike MOT station, and what they said when I asked about turning a fairly new bike into a track bike.

Brake, and horn, and indicator if switch gear is present.

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Oh I agree completely; having nearly rear ended a cage who didn't have working brake lights I think you'd be nuts not to, even if it wasn't a "requirement". If I was ever riding a track bike without one on the road I would be leaving an awful lot of stopping distance and giving lots of "slow down" hand signals. I don't think I'd ever actually build a road bike without them, even if it's allowed.

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So list as per the local tester.

Headlight - night use
Brakelight - night use
Correct Size Plate - must have
Rear reflector - must have

He wasnt sure about the number plate light though...

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As far as I am aware any light or part of,i.e. wiring, switch or loom that is fitted must be in working order for an MOT. As for as use is concerned,type approval is granted for the vehicle at first registration and to deviate from this may be a contravention of the Construction and Use Regs if the vehicle is to be used on the public highway.
Any modified vehicle that is for use on a public highway must have an engineers report and inspection by Vehicle Inspectorate before being legal. Remember that even using a vehicle on private land if the public has access will require some sort of liability insurance and these are questions asked by insurers.
Not as cut and dried as you would think if you want to be 100% legal,on the other hand you take your chances on private land
MOT is only a safety check not gospel that the vehicle is road legal and you could ride out of an MOT Station and get nicked under Construction and Use Reg for a defective vehicle

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This can't be true. Otherwise EVERY one of us who's modified our bikes would need such a report or we'd be getting nicked left right and centre.

The fact is that daylight MOT's exist and allow vehicles to legally travel on the road. The question is what does a daylight MOT require to be on or off the bike.

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I am not talking about cosmetics but changing major parts and notifying your insurance company you have done this.
e.g. Changing front forks and modifying the yoke or fitting a different swing arm,your insurance company may not accept this done by a private individual,unless a qualified engineer has approved it.
Many people make such changes and leave themselves open to the insurance companies making their insurance void in the case of an accident if the insurance engineer finds modifications that haven't been approved
A prime example being my last tumble,I am an engineer[ONC] but had to take the bike to a dealer after repairing it all myself to get it "Signed off" before I was insured to ride it again.
Possibly I am being a bit OTT on the legal side of things but I have 40years experience of plant and transport engineering and know of the loopeholes that insurance and vehicle inspectorate can use to have you prosecuted or as a get out.
Even using the wrong type of nuts and bolts is enough.

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I know if its a cat b and repaired then it has to be tested before putting back on the road, but I didnt think change or forks, swingarm ect was necessary?? Now I need to check as I cut and welded the tail end of my bike and I want to put it back on the road. Would this need checking for instance I wonder?

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The lighting regulations specifically say that if a machine is not fitted with a front or rear position lamp then it is exempt the rest of the lighting regulations provided it is used in daylight hours and not in conditions of seriously reduced visibility.

A front position lamp, in the case of a motorcycle, can be a headlamp. A brake lamp is not a rear position lamp so you can have one, and still be exempt the remainder of the regulations, however be careful if it a dual element bulb as that would be a position lamp, unless it is not fitted with a system of wiring to which it can be readily connected.

The rules around the switchgear come from the requirement that each and every part of a lighting system fitted to a vehicle must function, for example if your bike is fitted with lights and one didn't work, it would be no use you arguing that the light was fine, it's just the switch that is broken. If you don't have lights fitted you are exempt the regulations, so having the switchgear isn't a problem (I use my indicator switches for the engine mapping/pit lane limiter)

If you have a road bike post 1986 then if it has position lamps then it must have indicators. Bikes designed/intended for off road use don't need indicators. All bikes used on a road must have a horn. Hope that helps.