Are you 'at fault'?
 

OK, stupidity time....

With the discussion that's going on in the "Caught Speeding" thread a friend and I are sitting debating if there is such a thing as an accident where there is nobody 'at fault'

'At fault' = deserving of blame, guilty

So said friend is in my attic, he steps on the plasterboard and falls through the ceiling, making a big hole, but also landing on my wife in the room below and killing her (told you it was stupidity time!). :crutches:

He is at fault for making a big bl***dy hole in my ceiling, but is he at fault for killing my wife?

Well it's a matter of opinion, in my opinion he may be deserving of a medal (she's been a PITA today), in my sons opinion (but he's only 2) he may be deserving of a life sentence. So I guess it falls down to the opinion of the "reasonable person" hence the poll.

Is my friend at fault for killing my wife?

Re: Are you 'at fault'?
 

Sorry mate but your at fault for letting him in your loft without adequate provision such as boarding, lighting etc, you should ensure that is reasonably for him to enter your roof space in your house.

I hope the little fella puts you through the wringer for the rest of your natural and sues for the loss of his mummy!

As for the hole.................

nb650:joker:

Re: Are you 'at fault'?
 

Its the fault of the bloke who designed a house with an attic in it.
No wait, its the fault of the bloke who invented house.
No wait, its the fault of the humans who wanted something such as a house.
Whose the idiot who climbed out of the tree first...?

Re: Are you 'at fault'?
 

I have read some of that thread...

Yes accidents do happen its part of life. The below happened to someone close to me.

It turned that her friend had been driving a car down the road, the next thing the car ploughed into a tree and was killed in the crash. Same thing happened to some kids I played bball with in school (nice coming home present after travelling)

They couldn't figure what happened or why she crashed cause the car had pretty much done a 180 degree turn, then gone into a tree. But its not really know why it happened. Yet I have seen a car crash into a tree at a pretty high speed, that made a mess but the people inside were fine. Go figure and they weren't nice people either.

You can reduce risk, but sometimes s*** happens ur number is up.

As for the above of the OP is that not just a series of random events coming togther to produce that outcome? How could you ever predict that, if you could what implications would that have?

Re: Are you 'at fault'?
 

We all have a duty to act responsibly and if you ran a poll on things that might happen if you go walking around an attic falling through the ceiling would be right up there. If something is that predictable and you take a chance and it happens, then you're at fault.

The consequence of your mistake is somewhat less predictable though. Is it reasonable to assume that if you fall through the ceiling you will land on someone, I guess that depends on just how crowded your living room is. For example if you rode at 60mph down a lane, fell off on a bend, went through a hedge and landed on a couple enjoying their quiet romantic spot that would be an entirely different matter to you doing 60 mph down your local crowded High street and crashing into the bus shelter, killing a bunch of pensioners. That's why we see fairly lenient sentences handed out to drivers involved in fatal collisions, much to the distress of families. They look at the actual act, rather than the consequence of it.

Personally in your scenario I think you are at fault for not sending the wife up into the attic instead of your mate, it would have been totally predictable to expect a woman to fall through and you could have made sure the sofa was clear.

Re: Are you 'at fault'?
 

Are you talking 'civil' or criminal'?

Re: Are you 'at fault'?
 

Speeding is usually a deliberate act.

Caught speeding, take the punishment.:smt068

Board the loft.
Safety briefing.
Appropriate safety gear.
No one underneath anyone working above.
Wife should have been doing the washing up/cooking.

Re: Are you 'at fault'?
 

:winner:.....so far!

If you look at the results of the poll you'll probably guess who the friend was :rolleyes:

Re: Are you 'at fault'?
 

Fix the hole, buy mate a beer to make him feel less guilty, find a new burd and get on with your life. Your son's only 2, give him a couple of years and he'll have forgotten who your wife was**.


** Trust me on this, I have a couple of inherited kids whose real dad died when they were very young and they have no actual memory of him, only what has been related back to them. Their elder sister was 4 when he died and she has very few memories of him now she's 20.

Re: Are you 'at fault'?
 

I always liked the guy who accidentally dropped his chainsaw out of tree onto his wife.

To claim it was a genuine accident, he should have cut the branch he was sitting on he fell out hitting her whilst still buzzing the saw

Re: Are you 'at fault'?
 

There is always a fault factor,irrelevant of how you wish to define it,whereas an intent factor removes the accident factor.

Re: Are you 'at fault'?
 

hmmm, this reminds me of a certain rare petrol tank Im Indoors 'had', it was sat in his living room, so I inspected it(like women do)
''deeeear theres a big spot of rust under the tank''

''don't you dare touch that, i don't want you putting a hole in it''

i put it down, and left it alone....yes a woman can be told not to touch.
A day or two later his friend was 'inspecting' the tank

''mate you've got a big spot of rust underneath''
''don't touch.....thaaaa

TOO LATE, the mate put a big hole in the tank

HAHAHAHA it wasn't me to blame :-) His mate was blamed for turning it into some sort of ashtray/focal point. It took him rather a long time to find another tank, and it wasn't even the right colour:-( I can bet you he'd have spat feathers at me, if I'd put me finger in the tank!

Re: Are you 'at fault'?
 

its the wifes fault for being too slow to jump out the way. I would have known what was coming many milliseconds before it did.

We all have spidey senses don't we?

Re: Are you 'at fault'?
 

to the OP,
****ed at him for coming through the ceiling but couldnt blame him for killing the misses.

Out of interest, would he get in volentery man slaughter for that?

Re: Are you 'at fault'?
 

sorry, I felt a lame joke was needed;)

Re: Are you 'at fault'?
 

lol, v nice ;)

Re: Are you 'at fault'?
 

I dont think there is such a law as involuntary manslaughter. I think murder can be reduced to manslaughter and manslaughter to accidental killing.
I think involuntary manslaughter is an americansim from films.

I could be very worng here as its a very long time since i did A level law and A levels anit exactly in depth either.