User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

Even when overtaking...

Its not bloody hard, and when im doing the same travelling the opposite way down a huge gapped chevroned road, and you pop out from behined a car and nearly hit me from the front, I will get up and beat you with whatever debris is left and is solid :smt097

Even the car drivers can see you use them (and generally move over a bit to help you, even though its not usually needed), so take a tip, going to overtake, indicate. Really not that difficult to do and makes you far more noticable to all parties (bar ignorent other bikers on a race home who don't look).

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

i do use them

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

me too i always use mine.

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

I use them if there are people close enough to benefit from them, its just lazy and dangerous not to.

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

And back in the real world.... on my recent bike safe course the cop advised me not to do this.

1. Do you really think the vehicle in front is watching you closely enough to notice it?
2. The risk of leaving it on by mistake and the ensuing fool pulling out on you cos he thinks you are turning far outweighs the benefit of the indication to overtake.
3. Dont indicate to move back in either he advised for the same reason as no.2 above.

I was very surprised to hear this as i kinda pride myself on using my 'cators all the time, sets a good example to other road users imho but he was adamant its a pointless thing to do. OK in built up areas where its vital but on country roads, single lanes and dual carriageways he said its just a waste of time.

Real world riding he called it.

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

+1

In the car unless you're watching your RVM constantly by the time you glance back to check on the bike and see the indicator he'll have already overtaken you

Check for other traffic overtaking you and get past as quick as possible, bonus points if you get the front wheel up...

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

I agree with the ending there.. In a perfect world, yes. but in the real world... I agree with a copper, thats an odd feeling!

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

How you can't see a bright flashing dial on your dash confuses me if your paying full attention.


And if the driver notices the headlight coming up behined them, and sees the indicator, they have more notice.

It also makes you more visable to on-coming traffic.


I'd agree moreso in the summer, but it is nighttime now, indicators are VASTLY more visable at night.

I feel the police officer is wrong in this instance...

Still your life, you choose...

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

I do use mine for overtaking. Reckon if a vehicle does sideswipe me, at least the following witnesses will verify I was. However, I'm always acutely aware of how easy it is to leave them on, especially if you're "on it a bit" and how that makes you susceptible to vehicles pulling out on you.

However, it must be said, I do occasionally pull out and overtake if an opportunity unexpectedly presents itself, and I don't have precious milliseconds to flick them on.

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

If i'm overtaking on the m/way or duel carraigeway, I'll use them to pull out, then cancel them. After that I don't use them to pull back in.

Was taught this habit by an ex-traffic officer turned HGV driving instructor. If I used them to pull back in he had a walking stick to beat my wrist with:smile::smile:

No matter what I'm driving - truck, car, van or bike. You only need to use the indy's at roundabouts, junctions, and when overtaking another vehicle to let them know you're coming out and past them. No requirement for pulling back in. I don't know why they teach learner car drivers they have to use constant indy's all the time, even when changing lanes on empty roads..... or is it just me picked up the old skool driving techniques??

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

But what about the car/bike behind you also contemplating an overtake? Or the one coming the other way?
When I'm in my car I check RVM frequently and often see motorcycles and a signal would help in some situations.

Which is worse, giving a signal which is not seen or not giving a signal which could have been and then suffering the consequences?
Obviously all circumstances are different but in the main I don't agree with copper on this one. What makes them and others think they're experts anyway?

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

I'm with you on this one in the circumstances you mentioned in the OP. There is a similar stretch of hatching along a fast (ie 80+) bit of single caridgeway near Oxford. Quite a number of times I have been overtaking in the dark only to be faced with an oncoming vehicle that was not indicating but had also decided to use the hatching to overtake - bloody scary. In other circumstances I too have been advised to not bother indicating by an advanced diving instructor (taking a mini bus test) but in the case of pulling into the path of (possible) oncoming trafic then it's a no brainer really. I'd use em.

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

Play it by ear, I never said you should never indicate

It's obvious if the car/bike behind you is hawking for an overtake, in that case a signal would be a good idea

However if there's a bike in your RVM you shouldn't worry about them, it's up to them to pass safely and there's nothing you can do about it - concentrate on getting past as quickly and safely as possible, car drivers who do unexpected things are worse than those who don't even notice you until you blat past

If there's a vehicle approaching too close you shouldn't be overtaking anyway, if there's a vehicle behind the one approaching looking to overtake they wouldn't see your indicator until you pulled out anyway making it pointless

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

I always consider a signal when planning an overtake, but rarely end up giving one. Indicators are fitted to your bike so that you can give information to other road users about what you intend to do, they are not there to tell someone what you are doing, generally in an overtaking situation your position and speed change does that very nicely.
If you consider the majority of overtaking opportunities it is quite rare that you know you are going to go for the overtake long enough in advance of actually going for it to be able to signal effectively. Put simply you can't signal until you know you are going to go, and if you know you are gong to go then you should have gone! There are some exceptions, for example when leapfrogging in a line of traffic and you are popping off the gaps as they pass, especially if there is another bike following you, or as the OP said another bike oncoming who may be trying to do the same thing the other way, but that's fairly rare.

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

I try to use my indicators as often as I can. That is to say, when it doesn't hinder my maneuver. If I've got traffic around me, I definitely use them.
I was in the cage last week and saw a biker on a suzuki boulevard (pretty, aren't they?) which I follow for about a mile through town. He did not signal once. Trust me, it was hard as hell to tell when he was about to do something. And I was constantly watching him. He pulled in the gap before me a couple of times without signaling and it was frustrating. I had to brake to not run him over, as I was just accelerating into that gap. Had I not been watching him constantly, I would have surely ran him over. And that's what happens many times.
Relating to those precious milliseconds, it seems to me like it's only a movement of the thumb, so there's nothing wrong with signaling AND starting the maneuver at the same time. It's just a thing of habit I guess.. It did saved me a couple of times when overtaking some car that's about to turn and doesn't indicate it. They don't check their mirrors properly before starting to turn (and they don't signal, otherwise I wouldn't be overtaking), but many glance in their mirrors just as they grab the wheel. The indicators just help them see you better (and what really helps is you paying attention and backing off before they run you over).

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

Where was this, anyway? It wasn't an SV'er was it?

I passed a few bikes in the central res. on the way to see Spannerman last night- nothing really close though...!

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

Depends on the curcumstances of which there are hundreds of possibilities.

If it's straight case of commit and blast past in line with RH's post above I won't waste time signalling.

If I've only really been travelling 10mph faster than the car in front, he's not holding me up particularly, there's not that much oncoming traffic and I've plenty time to do the overtake, I'll sit in the cars mirrors with the indicator on for a few seconds, then sail past nice, smooth and progressive. If the driver can't pick up a flashing yellow light in this peripheral vision and take a look in his mirrors as a result, it ain't my fault if he's not expecting me when I come past.

If a vehicle to be overtaken is holding more than one car or bike up I'll always indicate, just so the driver or rider behind knows that I have seen the overtaking opportunity too and that am going for it, so he knows that if he wants to go also, he should plan to follow me not pull out a micro-second before me and try to overtake us both.

Riding in a pack of bikes on a ride-out I'll always indicate for the same reasons as above, there's too many vehicles with the power, potential and will to take advantage of the same overtaking opportunity.

So like I said, hundreds of possible circumstances, and you just have to indicate if you feel it's the right thing to do at the time, no other rider is inside your helmet and your head, knows your bike like you do, knows if you plan to blast past or sail past, and so nobody else can tell you what is right and wrong, it's being safe and being happy with your own judgement that matters.

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

...and trying to anticipate his next moves, so because he was being a tit, you took control of your environment and made it safe.

...but you didn't here, if you want to mitigate this risk, don't overtake past a right turn, and in any situation where there is constant threat of a car pulling a right turn, U-turn, or changing lanes such as a residential street with lots of driveways, or when filtering traffic, you just have to be damn careful. I nearly got knocked off in Ashbourne town centre on the Peak district ride-out because I didn't see a car turning right as I filtered past. He didn't check his mirrors or see me either, but I'm the vulnerable one so it's up to me to keep myself safe and make sure he's not going to turn before I pass him and it would have been my fault in my opinion because I didn't see or anticipate his move (I was looking at something on my right). Rideouts cloud your judgement sometimes because you follow the crowd, had I been on my own I probably wouldn't have filtered past him opposite a right turn, without being damn sure he wasn't going to move.

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

@Ralph: You're definitely right about that last bit. I actually was in an area with many streets intersecting the main. I didn't see there was such a junction coming up (really small street..), so I engaged in overtaking the non-signaling car. When he saw me overtaking, he started honking and signaled. I slowed down and pulled back in. But yes, it was me the one not being careful enough and had he not seen me, he might have turned in my path.. and all the bad things that happen with that.
I try to look for these things, but when I don't see them coming, I can only hope I've done enough to draw attention to my presence. What else is there to say? Never gonna be perfect..

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

When learning to ride, I was taught not to use my indicators when overtaking on a two lane road. This instructor said it can confuse other road users into thinking you are turning right. He said that your road positioning and the observation over the shoulder should provide more than enough indication of what you are planning to do. This did surprise me, as a car driver I'd always indicated. :confused:

So now, the only time I indicate during overtaking is if I think the vehicle in front might be contemplating an overtake themselves because they are being held up (obviously if they are clearly trying to overtake then I won't proceed with the manoeuvre).

I have also found on occasion, indicating causes the car in front to overtake! :shock: Either to block you or because that that fact that you are going to overtake means it is safe for them to do it too! :mad:

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

How can anyone possibly guess what the traffic around them will do in all situations? If you don't give people warning of your intentions you are asking for trouble so I will always use my indicators. If you don't have time to use them in this way you're possibly not driving according to your road conditions.

If you're in collision with another vehicle and you did not indicate it's going to really go against you in any investigation as well.

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

I use mine when overtaking a car but when filtering I don't well actually apart from if it's a two lane road and I want to filter down the middle then let someone know I want to get in there lane.

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

I am quite shocked at that suggestion by the copper actually! I always indicate for numerous reasons:

1) Sometimes nutters on sports bikes fly up behind me and try to double overtake, so indicating shows that you are about to overtake and stops anyone behind you doing anything stupid.
2) As a cage driver when I have someone close behind me like a bike, I am ALWAYS checking my mirrors, its nice to know by indication of what they are thinking of doing. When they decide to go I keep an eye out for traffic ahead, or any reason to ease off the accelerator to make the pass quicker if they have mis-timed it.
3) As Philbut said, if you overtake into a shared area, the indys on greatly help to show that you are an overtaking vehicle coming the otherway, not a car behind the other but staggered. Its very important in the dark far away when perspectives are harder to guage.

The reasons against indicating given by the copper are pathetic, it is not hard to do, and I haven't forgotten to cancel an indy for years now. The benefits far outwiegh any disadvantages I'd say.

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

Had a bad day have we? lol.

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

Managed to give a cager a reminder to use his indicators yesterday. I',m coming up to a roundabout where Mr Clueless Driver is dawdling round. He's turning right, but not bothering to indicate. So I pretend I'm expecting him to go straight over and head towards to the stop line as if I'm going to continue onto the roundabout.:smt096

I was ready to stop because I'd read his road position and knew exactly what he was doing, but it was still entertaining to see him hit the brakes, and suddenly start indicating as he crawled around to his exit. :D

Maybe I'm just mean....

Keith

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

I had the same advice from a police rider about not bothering to use them. We (on the course) all thought it was mental, but he gave the same reasons.

I use them all the time, to ensure I stay in the habit of always using them.

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

I'm sure we could go on all day with stories of supposed bad driving .....

Fact is they'll never change anything ......... all we can do is anticipate, adapt and respond to what actually happens ....

Daimo sounds like he needs to sit down for 2 minutes ........... think about what the roads are for (getting around) ........ and ride accordingly ......

Really ........ indicator, or no indicator ......... he should be thinking ...... 'what if ??' .... slow down, move in ......... and anticipate ............ but, I'm sure that means he's 2 secs slower to the next junction *rolls eyes*

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

Just had a quick look in the Highway Code. It does state you should signal, so I shall be ignoring my riding instructors advice and indicating before every overtake from now on (even BMW drivers - the idiots who normally block you once you indicate your intentions :rolleyes:).

------------------------------------
163

Overtake only when it is safe and legal to do so. You should

• not get too close to the vehicle you intend to overtake
• use your mirrors, signal when it is safe to do so, take a quick sideways glance if necessary into the blind spot area and then start to move out
• not assume that you can simply follow a vehicle ahead which is overtaking; there may only be enough room for one vehicle
• move quickly past the vehicle you are overtaking, once you have started to overtake. Allow plenty of room. Move back to the left as soon as you can but do not cut in

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

FWIW I think you're all right, including the copper.

My understanding of the advanced riding thing is that you're advised to always consider whether an indicator could be of benefit, but there are many circumstances where, after consideration, you decide that it's not needed.

If you're moving into a shared chevron area alongside oncoming traffic, you'd consider indicators necessary.
If there's traffic in your RVM that may be able to overtake you, then you'd consider indicators necessary.
If you're going to cross in front of oncoming traffic, then you may consider indicators necessary (depending on how close you'll pass to the oncoming traffic, but especially if it's dark).

If you're passing a lone car with good visibility and no other traffic in sight, you'd consider that the indicator won't benefit the car you're overtaking, and so isn't necessary.

The argument I was given for not using indicators where safe to do so is that it's a distraction when I should be concentrating fully on other things. I kind of see that, but I'm not totally convinced: as many of you say, it's not a big thing to remember them. Actually, I think Spidey's no. 2 reason (forgetting to cancel) is better than that one.

Actually, now I think about it, I wonder if having people consider, but not always use, an indicator is to just to allow easier "assessment" of their riding i.e. teaching to a test? If you always use the indicator you're not actually any less safe, it's just that an assessor could think you're on autopilot. However, if you sometimes do and sometimes don't as appropriate, you give the assessor some confidence that you're paying attention to what's going on around you and are making good judgements. Sound plausible?

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

FYI for those having a whinge (esp the noobs.......), no I hadn't had a bad day (well, actually every day at my place is a bad day, so you just get one with it :lol: )..

No I am not hammering it. Its rush hour, I use the road every single day. It only takess a couple of people to put a complaint in against a bike with a very obvious private plate. I am being not only curtious to other road users by not hammering it every day, but also being safe and giving myself as much notice to other road users as I can.

The issue was the bike coming the other way pops out (plenty of room for both of us, as very wide chevrons), but just heads towards me causing me to dive out the way. If he'd of been using his indicators, I could see him more clearly in the on-coming traffic hence not being so starteld and moved myself back into the lane if need be.

End of the day, we're on a bike, we're far more vunerable to being taken out, so you have to ride in the fact (on a daily basis ride from work) that every bugger is out to knock you off. You don't expect another biker to go about the road like an ignorent car driver.

People not using indicators is a REAL pet hate of mine, just like middle laners...

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

That's the point I was trying to make on a different thread. Commuting on a bike can be different to riding for pleasure at the weekend etc. Familiarity of the route plus maybe not being so focussed could make for a less involved rider.

Also, lets be honest, just 'cos we ride a bike doesn't mean we can't be kn0bs too.

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

Well I've heard a lot of arguments for and against and as I said in my earlier post there is all sorts of different circumstances but nothing I've heard will change the way I feel, I'll indicate unless there is a damn good reason not to.

I find it a bit worrying that some people think the views of a copper or someone who has passed/instructs IAM as more valuable than their own experience or anyone else who has managed to stay alive and have a full complement of limbs after many years of riding.
I'm sure my riding would be much safer if I was riding a massive white BMW with a blue light on it and I gave up on my IAM (driving) course because I felt years of riding bikes gave me much better experience than their 'clever for the sake of being so' attitude. Also a good friend of mine got knocked of his bike from behind from his IAM observer first time out, this collision also put him into the path of oncoming vehicles on a roundabout (who luckily avoided him) coincidently this was on an SV1000!

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

Especially using the same road every day. Just asking for trouble winding up the same people every day.

Hence you gotta be more curtious, give them space, not come hammering past them at top revs etc.. Bit of respect for other road users is all it takes.

And moving that thumb twice aint really a big effort.

Next up someone will say wearing a high vis vest is pointless too...

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

I don't think someone's occupation or experience should influence your opinion of their advice in the slightest. I think it would be far more useful if you actually read what they wrote and based your view on the value of their argument, either they evidence their opinion or they don't.
I believe if you are able to consider all of the available information and as a result decide that a signal will not be of benefit to anybody then there is no point in giving one. If on the other hand you are not confident that you can do so then the best advice would be to indicate all the time. There are clearly a number of people on here who prefer to operate on automatic pilot, and certainly you are less likely to come to grief by giving a signal when it not necessary than by omitting to use one when it was.

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

There is actually a situation with an argument specifically against using indicators.

When you are crossing over a major road, by turning left onto it, then turning immediately right, with a car waiting behind you. Where you indicate for the first left turn and move off, the driver behind follows you when you move, whilst looking to the right hand side, up the road towards oncoming traffic and accelerating away. You then indicate right and slow to turn across oncoming traffic for the second turn as the driver behind runs straight into the back of you. He thought you were going left, expected you to be long gone, and didn't anticipate that you may turn right immediately afterwards.

In that situation you are best not indicating at all and leaving the driver behind guessing as to what you are about to do next. The reason he runs into the back of you is because he has seen your left indicator, therefore he thinks he knows where you are going.

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

Trollmode:

Why get angry?

It happens.

Deal with it.

/Trollmode
:p

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

IMO you should always indicate. If you cancel it as soon as you have got into your overtaking lane there should be no confusion about turning right. And if traffic coming towards you is not indicating, you know they are not going to overtake, so you are safe to go...............:)
No excuses for not cancelling - you only need to thumb the switch - on past bikes of mine you had to look down to check if the switch was back in its off position.

And never ever leave a roundabout without indicating or I shall blow a fuse!!

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

I witnessed a car crash where a car overtook into the path of an overtaking car, one point the police made very clear they were sure on was if either of the vehicles had signalled. it turned out the vehicle coming from behind was signalling, the vehicle which pulled out on that overtaking vehicle didn't signal and was charged for dangerous driving.

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

I suspect the charge of dangerous driving had more to do with the fact that they hadn't looked to make sure it was clear rather than the omission of a signal. Put it this way if they had signaled as they had pulled out and the collision had still occurred would it have made it any less serious?
You would not believe the number of people I pick up off the road who bleat "Oh but I signaled" as if by moving their thumb they think they introduce some magical force field that shields them from danger. As I said earlier signals are there to tell other road users what you intend to do. They rely on two things to be effective, firstly there needs to be someone there to see them, secondly they need to be given early enough to serve a purpose. They're not there to stop someone hitting you, that bit is down to you.

Re: User yer - bleep - indicators!
 

Unbelievable, you would fail a test for this, if you are a good aware driver/rider then you should know your f***ing indicator is on, the police huh a world of their own. :hackedoff: