More proof that a full service history...
 

...is not worth the paper it is written on! And you can't trust garages! Learn to service your own car or bike, or find an independent mechanic you can trust! Or at least check everything the garage has done against what your service book and manual says they should have done!

I have a full Vauxhall service history on my 3 yr old, 60k mile, Vauxhall Vectra, so why did it break down on my wife and three year old son today?

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/d...servhist-1.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/d...l4/servint.jpg

Because the OEM General Motors branded spark plugs fitted at the factory, that should have been changed at 40k miles, are still in the bloody thing another service later!!!

Also courtesy of a full main dealer service history...

• The first service shown on the schedule above, a cheap semi-synthetic was used, I knew this was wrong at that it needed fully synthetic GM-LLA025 specification, so I took it back and make them change it
  
• My wife's Seat was serviced with cheap semi-synthetic for 5 years by a main Seat dealer, before I did it for the first time myself and checked what oil I needed to buy, the car should have been running on fully synthetic VW-505 specification. Luckily it has been serviced every year and has never done more than 10k miles between services. Needless to say I now service it myself.
  
• My SV was serviced by a main dealer in Edinburgh for 16000 miles, and at 18000 I ran out of clutch adjustment at the lever, so I read up on how to adjust it at the worm drive, and realised that it had never been touched since new, even though it is on the service schedule every 4000 miles. I service that myself now too.
  
• My XT600 was serviced for the last two services by a garage in Wales, and has a full service history otherwise (on mileage not age though). The spark plug was fitted incorrectly causing rough running and bad starting, the oil was overfilled by a litre (!) and the air filter has never been changed in 8 years. I didn't even bother going near a dealer for servicing on this one, just serviced it myself and fixed all the dealers problems.

WTF do we pay these people for???

Sorry, had to have a rant.

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

Gits...

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

Commendable for modern spark plugs to last 60k!

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

Post corrected.

Please don't tar all dealerships with the same brush.

Kawasaki's service schedule states oil and filter changes every 7500 miles, but everyone who has any mechanical knowledge at our place thinks that is too long for any bike, especially if the bike is not doing lots of miles and could go more than 18 months between services, so we change it at every 3750 miles with the recommended oil and genuine filter. We know it adds another 30 odd quid to the service bill, but we tell the customer that we're doing it and none has expressed any sign of displeasure at it, in fact most are happy we think along those lines.

My friend is sales manager at Bill Smiths in Bangor, their top man in the workshop has numerous awards for being a top technician and their happy customer base supports this. Not all dealers are ripping you off.

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

I have a suspicion that the ones in my BMW 318i may well have been in there for about the same length of time. I've read some very bad internet reviews of the place where my car used to be serviced, so it's going to get a full one done by me and a BMW trained friend soon. Luckily he has all the right kit and diagnostic equipment.

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

I share your frustrations - the final straw being when I picked a bike up form a service with 8 psi in the rear tyre. And it had just that minute come back from a test run with the mechanic! Took me about 20m to figure something was very wrong, get off and check the tyre :roll:

But that said, I certainly wouldn't rubbish all garages or service histories. Have just been looking at 10-20 yr old Landcruisers, let's just say that we took the one with the immaculate Toyota service history plus receipts for all work done whenever any problem was flagged, over the (several) cars with no service history at all (or one that stopped 68K miles ago!), and which had just been patched up to get through the MOT each year. The difference became painfully obvious in a test drive...

I do find it frustrating though that everything has got all clever in recent years and it makes it hard to do some tasks without the diagnostic equipment, special tools, etc

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

Verna Lupo GTI is meant to run some stupidly expensive oil but it runs 10w40 the same as the Polo from whence the engine came. Oil is basicaly oil and as long as they didnt charge you fro fully synth then i wouldnt worry about it. Some of the aftermarket guides are WRONG. AS for the plugs, if they are still servicable, why change them, again as long as they havent charged you for them.

My sv had its 1st set of plugs at 16k and it didnt suffer from it one bit.

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

What engines your Vectra got?

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

jeez if you didnt have bad luck ralph you would have any.

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

When all four of my vehicles have not been properly maintained per the service schedule, by four different garages, I struggle not to. I just don't trust any of them anymore. How are you supposed to know if the garage is a good conscientious one, unless you work there or know someone on the inside? Take the vehicle apart and mark all the parts that are supposed to be changed with a permanent pen, then take it apart after and see if they have been changed? Might as well just change them yourself.

I'd disagree I'm afraid. Most modern vehicles state 20,000 mile service intervals. To do this mileage between oil changes they need a fully synthetic longlife anti-shear oil which is designed for the purpose. My wifes car never did more than 10k between services so no harm has been done. In the Vectra however, it was filled with a traditional bog standard semi-synth at 15k that would need changed after 10-12k miles, but the car wasn't serviced again until 36k. Had I not noticed it on the invoice and insisted that it was changed there and then, I could have done 1000's of miles on oil that was well finished. Do that every service then wonder why you have major engine trouble before 100k?

Now, I know that if you want your car to last ten years and 200k then change the oil every 10k, or every year, but my work contract stipulates that my car must always be under 6 years old and 120k miles, and at 5 years you get an email reminder asking you you think about car shopping.

Most garages also charge fixed price for servicing now, so that means a 20k service as per the manufacturers service schedule for £xxx pounds. Which includes using the manufacturers specified materials. The way these garages are ripping people off is charging the same price, but using cheaper materials. So yes, they have charged for fully synth.

Z18XER, 1.8 140bhp petrol

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

My mates vectra has well over 200k on the clock and has been rinning on cheap oil for most of its life. He bought is back in 2005 with about 140k on the clock. He services it him self and runs semi synth and has NEVER had an issue, so i really wouldnt worry about it and cetrainly wouldnt get worked up about it.

Ask the garage what they specify for the service, i bet its just Oil and filter as part of thier fixed price servicing, therefore they havent charged for fully synth, they have charged for oil and thats what you got.

Modern Oil is far better than the stuff of days of old, and i am sure that semi synth happily will run beyond its natural life thats for sure.

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

Yeah but how often does he change it?

It's principle TBH. Vauxhall say do "X"... don't do "Y" and charge for f*cking "X" just because you can... Otherwise what is value of service history?

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

How often does he change the oil? If he's doing it every 10-12k he only needs semi-synth. So he's only actually done 60k in the car himself, not really long enough to see problems IMO even if he was running that oil for 20k, and that certainly doesn't account for "most of it's life" on a 200k car. It probably had 10k service intervals, or 20k with fully synth, up until the point where he bought it. If he is running a semi-synth oil for 20k miles, he is damaging his engine.

The garage specify a service as per the manufacturers service schedule, which therefore includes fully synth oil. Take it to another garage at exactly the same price and you get fully synth. They are charging for fully synth, and using semi.

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

ITS HAPPENED AGAIN! FIRKIN BARSTEWARDS!

Wife comes home yesterday, "there's something wrong with my car", the engine's funny just the same as when yours broke down, and there's a light on the dashboard as well.

The light is an engine management light. The engine is a triple, and sure enough it's cutting back to two cylinders intermittently. So spark plug or coil pack. I disconnect the battery on her trusty Ibiza to give fault codes a chance to reset and set about whipping the plugs out. When I removed the first absolutely knackered plug and saw it was branded VW Audi I just about hit the roof. Looks like the original factory fitted plugs that should have been replaced by the stealer at 20k and 40k. New plugs, start engine, engine management light goes out. Arrrgggghhhh!

So just a reminder of my history with main dealers, this is beyond bad luck, it's evidence of widespread cheating and fraud within the main dealer networks, charging customers for parts and for work, that hasn't been done.

• The first service on my Vectra, a cheap semi-synthetic was used, it needs fully synthetic, so I took it back and make them change it
  
• Ibiza serviced with cheap semi-synthetic for 5 years by the same a main Seat dealer, car should have been running on fully synthetic as I found first time I bought oil for it myself.
  
• SV serviced by main dealer for 16000 miles, and at 18000 I ran out of clutch adjustment at the lever, adjustment at the worm drive had never been touched since new, but is on the service schedule every 4000 miles.
  
• My XT600 with FSH was serviced for the last two services by a garage in Wales. The spark plug was fitted incorrectly causing rough running and bad starting, the oil was overfilled by a litre (!) and the air filter has never been changed in 8 years.
  
• Same problem as today with my Vectra, original GM branded spark plugs being removed completely knackered after more than 60k miles
  
• This problem with the Ibiza today

Don't give these thieves your money folks!

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

Name and shame.

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

+1 Name and shame

as has already been said not all in the trade are bad.

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

With pleasure!

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

This can't be bad luck and co-incidence guys. It is now my belief that the majority of main dealers are at it. Their customers don't know any better and are being routinely ripped off.

Neighbour just had his brakes replaced by his Ford dealer, can hear him arrive home such is the squeal. He's taken it back to have the cheap s**t pads they used, replaced with a reputable brand. Will name and shame that one if I remember to ask him which dealer he uses. All I asked was "Was it a main dealer?"

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

My personal belief is that anyone who knows enough to know whether they're being ripped off will do it themselves!

A good friend of mine is a mechanic, just himself, he's happy for anyone to watch him work, show them the knackered parts he's removed and the packaging for the bits he's replaced them with. Unfortunately good and honest workmanship is being driven out of business by the insidious creep towards computer control which a normal garage cannot afford the deliberately specialised tools needed.

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

Exactly

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

This is why i refuse to pay main dealers and their stupid hourly rates! with a service there is alot that can be skiped without the average motorist realizing. My mate does all my servicing no matter what make the car and that way i know he has done what he say's he's done.

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

With my car I don't have the choice to do it myself. It is paid for with a company allowance, and the company demands that it is serviced by a main dealer in accordance with the service schedule (what a joke that is!). They employ an outsourced company to manage all cars and they email me when they see from the mileage on my fuel card that it is due a service, asking me to book it in, tell them when and where it is being done, and send them a copy of the invoice and a copy of my service history book. It is managed as strictly as the company cars which the company owns.

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

Well our garage in work when my spanner light came up, the 2 fitters said if the oil + water are okay, no knocking or vibration don't worry.

It's all on trust at the end of the day. I did the plugs myself as for £5.50 worth of plugs its worth it.

FDSH means nothing, FSH is better.

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

Had a few like this thread in the past, ended up loosing £3500 on a 4yr old Scenic Dci that i bought from Arnold shark motorstore in Motherwell (AVOID LIKE THE PLAUGE!) after they screwed me about for 6 months, they had it more than i did! Problems it had were diagnosed by the local Renault dealer (Metal fragments in the fuel due to the derv pump shredding itself) and recommended a full new fuel system, Sharks took the car back to motherwell and replaced the pump and injectors with refurbs and gave me the car back!
Traded it for a VW and never looked back.
Another thing that causes problems in smaller garages is the parts suppliers they buy from. My mate works for Dingbro and i usually buy the stuff to service my cars and bikes from him (mates retes) Last time i done a big service on the wifes car was 9 months/3000 miles back, just had to replace the leads again after having starting problems (leads were arcing all over the place!) Said to him to get me DECENT leads.. went to pick them up next day.. £6.42! they dont sell bosch or the likes now. Carp leads were the problem last time.. Keep em and wandered off to buy better ones else where!

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

Ralph:
" They employ an outsourced company to manage all cars and they email me when they see from the mileage on my fuel card that it is due a service, asking me to book it in, tell them when and where it is being done, and send them a copy of the invoice and a copy of my service history book. "
So next time they email you, send them a copy of your OP & see what they make of it! & stop wasting our time! ;)
Bet the Main Dealer & outsource Company guys have a good thrash at Christmas - they're all in it together.
Your affectionate Cynical Barsteward,
punyX
( the X is NOT a kiss )

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

I'm sure they do have a good thrash at xmas. :rolleyes:

How am I wasting your time exactly? If you don't want to know what is happening in the places where you spend your hard earned cash, don't read it ;-)

I have four vehicles BTW, only one regulated by my work.

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

Just pulling your whatnot, Ralph!
As ever an interesting thread and we all need to know about the leeches & other scrotes that are bleeding us dry.
No offence intended.

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

Unil it comes to resale time - try selling a BMW or Mercedes with a FSH and not a FDSH (or recognised trusted independent specialist) and see what the difference in price is. The extra cost of the services is outweighed by the extra money the vehicle is worth.

If the difference over 50K miles was only 200 quid then it wouldn't be worth having a dealer history, but in some cases, even on a 7 or 8 yr old BMW it adds up to more than that. Without a FDSH my 2001 318i SE is worth about £2500, but as it has a full dealer history its value is more like £3650.

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

Having a running vehicle rather than a drive ornament you've still got to work on yourself is worth more than £1150 to me.

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

Trouble is most newer vehicles now require expensive diagnostic equipment to service them properly, equipment that not a great number of smaller workshops can afford, and when they do have it the cost of it is reflected in the service price. I'll do so much on my own car, but when it comes to servicing I'll have to take it for the difficult bits to be done by my local trusted independent and take the slight hit on my wallet for the sake of keeping getting a stamp in the book and retaining the resale value. Besides, it's a BMW car... they don't go wrong[1]


[1] Look out for my forthcoming "My poxy car has broken down" post :-)

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

Depends on your mileage and other factors affecting your residual value IMO. If your residual value is screwed anyway, then a FDSH makes little difference.

I buy cars with longevity in mind, I aim to get my moneys worth by diving the cost by the number of years I keep it, not by worrying about what it will be worth 3 years down the line. My car will get replaced at 5 years when my work says I have to, my wife's car is 8 years old and she'll still have it for as long as it's still going strong, it's been so reliable I'm very reluctant to change it.

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

Dealer servicing hasn't affected the reliability then

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

The car has been 100% reliable, until Saturday when it failed because the stealer hadn't done what they were paid to do. The stealer is the only thing that's affected the reliability. The car would have been just as reliable if the same work had been carried out by myself or an independant, it's only had routine servicing, the stealer has done nothing special with it.

The only reason I started using stealers was because I had got to a point in my life where i could afford to buy new or nearly new cars, and wanted to keep them with a FDSH and without any warranty arguments. A mistake on my part IMO.

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

Why did it take you 5 instances of being ripped of to realise this,

I was 18 and my first bike came back from insurance repair still with its bent forks...

I stopped using dealers then and I wont ever unless I am forced by for example company policy.?

Keep the plugs, write a ****ty letter to vauxhall demanding all ur invoice monies back, and then find a god independent, your company cant get ****ty about it as by law we don't have to have vehicles serviced by dealers any-more to keep the warrenty so they have no argument about it not being done properly.

or next time around, take the company car :-)

ps.. sorry to hear it, we all hate being ripped of.

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

if you want the service history then you need to check its being done. - every time any of my vehicles have gone in for servicing - i get a full run down of what they are going to do and challenge it if needed and ask for old parts to be available when i pick them up. If ican old parts are marked (always do it on the bikes)
The garages I used are alsways happy for me to check the engine over before i leave too.
I am still capable of servicing my own but sometimes needs must.
The new car is going in for service at A VW specialist on wednesday and although thay have ablistering reputation - they will still get the same treatment off me - parts required and list of exact what is required and additionals. I will also inspect the whole car before i leave and pay.

Rather than just booking it in an dleaving it - ask questions about it - I've never had any problems so far.

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

5 instances, but it only took 2 for me to stop using stealers wherever possible

Vectra oil - noticed on the invoice straight away and had it rectified

SV clutch - noticed at 18000 miles when it needed adjusted at the worm drive for the first time. I figured out how to do it myself and was annoyed to find it was still in the OEM position.

(Stopped using stealers at this point and done all work on motorbikes and Ibiza myself since, but noticed the following problems as a result)

Ibiza oil - noticed the first time I serviced the car myself and had to buy oil of the correct spec, knew it wasn't fully synth that was on my service invoices, car has never needed top ups.

XT plugs, oil and filter - previous owner had the bike serviced by this stealer before selling to me, I found the problems with it after a few hundred miles of ownership. Have serviced it myself since.

Vectra plugs - I don't service this, how would I find out about this until it broke down at 60k miles?

Seat plugs - as Vectra, I had serviced it myself once since I stopped using stealers, but it wasn't scheduled for plugs. I found out when it caused a problem this weekend.

I don't have option of a company car, the company changed that policy before I joined, everyone with less than 3 yrs service has car allowance. I make money out of my car allowance anyway, as I could run a large prestige car on that money if I wanted to, but choose to drive a Vectra, car badges are not important to me. I would be financially worse off with a company car because what I save by running a Vectra not a BMW 5 series goes in my pocket.

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

That's good advice, I'll be doing this with the Vectra in future.

Blistering reputation means nothing BTW, because 99% of customers don't do this, so long as their car doesn't break down, they judge the dealer on how nice the man at the front desk was. Look at the reputation of Saltire Suzuki, and the walls at W Livingston are covered in customer service awards. Can't fault either of them for being nice people to deal with, but that's no good if behind the scenes the work isn't being completed.

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

Should have got a Ford...

My TDCi is up around 60,000 now and has never required a spark plug in it's entire life...


Problem?;)

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

Fair Play then mate,

I have the CC option as the car allowance is when all told, pitiful to run a decent car, (£220 in your pocket) and I went through 2 cars both with significant failures during a 2 yr a period of trying to make money from the allowance.

Best thing I ever did with my allowance was buy the tuono :-)

Re: More proof that a full service history...
 

Id get onto the dealer ....