A life saving skill.......
 

Hadn't had one of these for a while, and recent events have brought it to mind (http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=161354).

On a lesser level....Friday coming from a friends I came across an RTA, a biker was forced off the road, the resulting injury was a snapped tib & fib (mid shin or so) and rotation, now although unlikely to be life threatening, circulation was blocked to his foot, I'm fortunate that my previous occupation furnished me with the necessary skills to deal with that sort of thing, but I've always had basic CPR knowledge and really wouldn't feel comfortable riding without it.

We all ride bikes and it's quite possible to come across an accident at any stage, are you unselfish enough to have the necessary training to save a life ?

Cheer Mark

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

Done my de-fib training which includes CPR and about to re-do my first aid traning at the end of the month - the broken elbow last year stopped me doing it then. I've helped at 3 road accidents, two for bikers. They should CPR it an essential part of the car and bike test.

And if all else fails - make sure you are on the organ donation register. Your bits are no good to you once they've been put in a wooden box.

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

couldn't agree more Clare, perhaps as so many aren't riding at present, now is a good time to find somewhere to grab a bit of training?

a lot of firms offer the training it's worth asking; if not try contacting your local ambulance service as they may run a program or something like St john's, another option is to ask at your local bike shop as a lot have information on "first bike at scene" type courses.

Cheers Mark

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

I shall be rearranging my first aider re-training when I go back to work, as its lapsed. There wasn't really time to do the refresher whilst on maternity.

We have the de-fib training option now, as there was an unfortunate accident at work, not that it would do any good for that incident, but it kinda gives another thing under the belt for those exceptional circumstances.

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

The only thing with this is you must keep your training up to date, certainly in CPR, as the Resitation council change how its done as new reserch finds out what works best.

I'm lucky that in my current job I have 6 monthly refresher training to Emergency Responder level

When I first started CPR was 15 compressions to 2 breaths, now its 30:2 for adults. Now current thinking is not to worry too much about getting the 2 breaths, but keep the chest compressions going to keep the brain fed with fresh blood.

But I can't disagree with having some basic first aid training

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

What really irritates me is our former employers attitute towards DFIB's. We weren't allowed to have them just in case we gave someone an electric shock they didn't need.

But as many supermarkets and other places routinely have them on the walls, its quite ridiculous we couldn't have them. These days the devices I've used are foolproof, so you can only give someone a shock if they need one. Even my 12 year old could operate the DFIB we have at work.

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

ANd of course the training covers the machine, not your workplace so if the person in the queue at Tesco hits the deck you can use their de-fib machine if yu are the first person at the scene. One of my employers used to pay the first aiders £20 per month bonus for being trained which was unasked for but nice anyway.

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

I have to have my refreshers every year. It's true though every time I do it the ratio of compressions to rescue breaths change! Although because I work in Theatres they now teach us to do the rescue breaths with a face mask and hand ventilator bag. We always get told that the compressions should be at a rate of a hundred compressions per minute. It never ceases to amaze me what the instructors think 100 bpm is :rolleyes:. Usually they do it around twice that rate.
Ironically Stayin Alive by the Bee Gees is 103 bpm, so if you ever find yourself performing CPR on someone just hum stayin alive to yourself whilst your doing it and you won't go far wrong ;):D

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

But you must be aware of vacarious liability - ie if you go to help someone if you're trained and get it wrong they could sue you - charming.

So some doctors may avoid getting involved, and leave it to the Paramedics to deal with.

Unlike someone who is untrained, is looked on as a good samaritan.

Something to thank the 'where's there's blame, there's a claim' culture

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

That might have changed recently, we were taught to use Nellie the Elephant :p

Stayin Alive might be the latest, I forget what we were using :D

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

I prefere "Spirit in the Sky"
Altogether more appropriate.:D

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

see i'd have to disagree to an extent, whilst it's preferable to have the latest and most up date training, and if your workplace offers that then by all means, but most will hopefully at some point do a "one off" course which may never be repeated or updated, If I was the recipient I'd rather someone use what they learn 5 years ago, than think they had better not try anything because it maybe out of date, wouldn't you?

cheers Mark.

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

True.Theres a bit of an "industry" surrounding this,with lots of jobs for the boys(and girls).The bottom line is usually that a good dose of cpr and a bolt from the dfib, if required, all done quickly, either sorts it or you are a gonner.

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

I'm a qualified advanced first aider through work due to the conditions and environment we work in. The course was mind numbing as a lot of it is common sense but it is worth doing to reaffirm your confidence in any given situation.

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

If you are de-fib trained and see someone that needs help think where they may be close to your location. So in London, tube stations, shopping centres, maybe big buildings ect. Quicker a person gets help, better the chance they have. Most de-fib units such as this are automatic as well.

I was told on the training I did, most important get CPR started and don't stop until someone who is more qualified than you turns up.

When it comes to it, do something rather nothing!

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

99% of defibs available to the public are completely automatic. You attach the pads and press a button. The unit will then perform a test and decide whether to shock or not. Slightest bit of electrical impulse detected and it won't shock, including if someone is touching a victim. A 10 year old could use one.

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

I was only refering to CPR, but even if you did 15:2 instead of 30:2, you'd still be be better than doing nothing at all

The first hour is the 'golden hour' the better you do for the paitent in the 1st hour, the better the long term outcome.

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

100% correct

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

Bit slow methinks ;)

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

Sorry but +1 on this. Even that big fat bloke is suing the NHS for "letting" him get too fat. Here serious pie eater.

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

I'm going to start wearing a badge on my leathers that says - please try and help me if I'm dying - I promise I won't sue you.

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

Theres new specific legislation to remove the 'Myth' of people being able to be sued for providing first aid.

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

Knowing the basics should be an ambition for everyone, and for us bikers it should include telling the good Samaritan not to take off the helmet off unless the 'patient' has breathing difficulties.

But it's not just about CPR!

I've not had a refresher since 1974, and I should get one, although I read up a lot. But I've dealt with numerous breaks, severe cuts, head injuries, a drowning and an electric shock all of which should be dealt with in a specific way. As to ambulance chasers and vacarious liability, I'd sooner be the subject of a court case than have someone die leaving me to think if only I'd got involved.

And a shock advisory defib is easier to use than your microwave, so don't be frightened of one.

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

Very sad but true. I've furtunately never come accross an accident where CPR was needed, but it would definitely make me think twice :rolleyes::(

I have heard Nellie the Elephant also. They must work though because they do stick in your head :)

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

Im pretty certain the 'golden hour' is trauma based the magic number for CPR is eight minutes! thats the time the person needs the defib by for best chance of recovery! Also a big thing to mention noone else has is the need to get help. CPR is all well and good but most will need the defib so make sure that is coming first before doing anything else!

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

Yes, he's a local lad. Sueing because the NHS didn't treat his pie eating as serious enough :confused:

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

What does all that mean to someone like me who had a basic course back in high school, 15 years ago?

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

Yes Nellie the Elephant is correct, something I was taught as the correct pace for CPR. However I would suggest keeping it your mind and not bursting out into song!

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

Yep, first action is call for help and get an ambulance.

As for sueing because you've eaten too many pies - that's like me suing Sainsbury's because they keep letting me buy cheese.

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

In what respect, being sued or doing it the right way

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

Yes, I've done the first biker on scene. Have done it a couple of times now. As for having the latest method of CPR. Don't buy that really. If you've learnt CPR whether it was 2 months ago or 2 years ago, it isn't going to change a whole lot. It's pretty basic stuff and normally the only thing that changes is the ratios. ANY CPR done the way your were taught is better than not doing anything and likely to save a life.

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

Its what I said

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

Done CPR and basic first aid through the military, Also recently done the Patrol Medic course, however its a completley dif type of first aid for the most part.

I would be confident in using what has been taught to me in order to savea life if required.

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

Obviously we are trained in the basics, a bit more than a joe public course, but the key thing we were told is that if you can't do breaths properly, or are uncomfortable with them, DON'T do them and just do chest compressions, think it was due to the amount of people wasting time trying to get a breath in when they were panicking.

I'd like to think most people are know aware enough to be able to carry out CPR, at the end of the day, something is better than nothing, even if the ratio of compressions to breaths is wrong!

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

Current CPR guidance

http://www.resus.org.uk/pages/bls.pdf

Doing something is better than nothing, but if you're doing it wrong by not compressing the chest far enough then you're wasting your time, compressing it too far is going to hurt the casulty futher.

The changes are explained. As we are taught, you're unlikely to bring them back just with CPR, but it'll help preserve them better once the Paramedics turn up with all the kit

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

Did the FBOS course a few years back, I should probably go again for a refresher.

I had to use some of what I learned once too, albeit for a car driver rather than a motorbike, so definitely worthwhile going!

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

Well that was interesting...
my Year 11 Health & Social Care group has just had their first 3 hour First Aid session, run by St John's Ambulance. I can confirm they suggested a 30 compressions to 2 breathes ration, but were much more relaxed about where to press on the chest. When I did it a few years ago, it was all about counting so many fingers up from the big rib or something. Tbh, it sort of put me off because I thought I'd get it wrong. This time they just stressed, in the middle of the chest, doesn't matter too much where!

But the new thing that I did learn today was the number to ring. I knew that 112 was as good as 999, but didn't know that if you use 112 on a mobile and you don't don't where you are, they can keep hold of your signal and track you. They can't do that on 999.

Might be useful one day, as I often havn't a clue where I am!

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

Either!

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

That could have been so helpful for us at the GM. Trying to describe where we were as i'm not sure control was so sure. We were 30/40 mins doing CPR up a hill waiting for paramedics. I don't think a defib would have helped but that community is now looking into one given the amount of walkers.

we were working 30:2 but the breaths were quickly ditched as it was an awkward angle for us to work at.

The defib that the para's brought looked dead easy to understand and follow - in fact there was no way you could mess it up.

And i used nellie the elephant much to the hilarity of the fireman that was there - though staying Alive is just as good but you have to make sure you don't start doing the dance as well.

RIP Frank

Re: A life saving skill.......
 

Basic first aid esp a little CPR knowledge can aid the ambulance technicians and paramedics in to giving the person a better survival rate, As MBK said in her training if your not happy doing the breaths just concentrate on chest compressions.

After 2 good breaths (full and equal air pressure into both lungs) it'll take approx 20 good compressions for the full body to recieve that o2, and in 10 compressions you would be stopping to give more o2. Although not official, current thinking from resus council (it's under review at the moment) is to go straight into 300 compressions, after calling for help, as there is still over 70% o2 in the air we breathe out and the compressions will enable the brain to stay oxygenated.

Although on a very sick note, the sound of cracking ribs as you do those first couple of compression is a sound of beauty.