Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

There are 'leaks' that next weeks budget will include pay freezes or smaller increases to bring public sector pay into line with private sector pay for comparible jobs.

Is this fair / unfair?

Discuss.

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

Long overdue!

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

Does the survey take into account that some private sector jobs come with perks such as a company car, free BUPA health care?

I know a company car isn't the perk it used to be, but servicing & petrol are paid by the company?

Yes, maybe the public sector do get paid more in real terms, but have other benefits that haven't been included in the calculations?

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

Since you get the *rse taxed off you for any perks these days I don't think that matters so much.

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

They can keep freezing my pay if they need to, i'm by no means rich but i'll survive and i'm happy to have a job! Hopefully once the countries fixed we wont have a crazy overspending labour government come back in and ruin it all again by creating a public sector that is almost 60% of the working population, idiots.

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

Having looked into a bit more it seems that it's to do with the fact that public sector workers in London get 0.5% more than private sector workers, in the West Midlands it's 8% more and in Wales it's 18% more.

So in effect, public sector workers all over the country are getting 'London Rates' without the expense of living in London. I'm paraphrasing and might not have got that spot on.

From the news I saw I think it's across the board and not necessarily in jobs that come with company cars etc. I know people who have them at our company are taxed on them and you don't get petrol paid. You have to put petrol in yourself and claim back 5p per mile (because it's a company car) while the rest of us get 45p to cover wear and tear etc..... so it's arguable whether it is a benefit to have a company car (I think 45p is comparible to public sector)

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

Its going to take a whole bunch of public servants to work out this pay business

Its already part of the wage process

London weighting
Inner London weighting

So some new regional rates

Scouse weighting
Sporan weighting

Works North of Peterborough weighting

Humber weighting

I live in surfing country weighting

I live with sheep weighting

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

My job (teaching) has a london weighting, its an extra 6 or 7k i think. I'm pretty sure all public sector jobs will be the same. THere's no way they are going to pay london rates for people up north when they can get then for northern rates.

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

No. Public sector workers AFAIK get paid London weighting (inner & outer) which is an extra allowance for working in London. Covers transport costs to get into the smoke etc. That's over and above the national rate of pay

So if they weren't paid this allowance the pay gap would be even less, maybe under the private sector pay level.

I know London weighting didn't cover my extras for working in London.

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

There's very little point in them trying to pitch the public sector against private. They need to shrink the public sector and the gap will naturally be filled by the private sector. A ****load of people are going to get binned and hard times are definitely ahead. They can only control the public sector pay directly though, the private sector can set its own pay and conditions etc. I wouldnt want to be middle management in the public sector now though! Front line for once is going to be safer!

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

They could save loads of money by moving jobs out of London, and not paying London weighting.

With modern technology why do we need so many public sector jobs in London.

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

My misunderstanding then.

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

There a lot of it about :D

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

But it was definatly something about the pay gap differing in the regions.....

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

To be honest, they can fix most of this by just sacking a lot of the managers and replacing them with cheap frontline workers. More cops, nurses, tekkas, etc and less weird bean counting tossers. The amount of red tape and cack in this country makes it impossible to do most things properly now. My lass was in hospital the other day there was no where near enough staff to look after people but seemed to be plenty of random staff kicking about doing stuff.

I expect he will cut the high tax rate too and move it back to 40% because the top earners are in reality paying almost all of the tax now and keeping the country afloat! Scary times.

Is it not that the pay is the same but the expense of living in different regions differs? Example, a lollipop lady in London central gets what is fair salary for their job considering cost of living etc, but this sets the bar for lollipop ladies all over the country even though their cost of living is much lower.
I could be wrong (again lol) but that was my take on it anyway.

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

Yes, all Lollipop ladies should be on the same flat pay scale as an example.

Same as Police, Fireman, Nurse etc.

But ones living in London get London weighting added to their salary.

A lollipop lady in Cardiff may have a higher wage than her public sector equivalent because the basic salary is higher.

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

It all depends on the contract offered too. We were under the impression of a 5% pay rise coming in april but they put figures out why we could only have 3% which was fair enough but when the contract swings into their favour i hope it's remembered we took in effect a 2% less pay rise. Also we are having our fixed overtime hours cut too so swings and roundabouts.

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

Actually this government is hell bent on slashing all ordinary workers wages and it cant do that effectively unless it hits the public sector.Also,Im not sure private sector wages are much (if any)lower than public now.The last few years of public sector pay freezes and recent rises in average private sector rates may well have put that difference back.These things ebb and flow over the years anyway and now is no different.
What is true is that ordinary working people have only ever got better pay and conditions by fighting hard for them,and those improvements only get maintained if people are prepared to continue to fight.There may be trouble ahead-------

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

Aye, one thing Maggie didn't do was pick a fight with the Police, which this Govenment has.

In the blue corner 'The Home Secretary' in the red coner 'PC lets be avinya'

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

That is very true.They really do want to wind the polis up dont they?Now is that political naivity or are they so confident that they will take on any comers?(Except the bankers and top rate tax payers perhaps?)

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

WRONG! Love the way this place is so narrow minded sometimes based on limited facts.

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

How come I'm wrong?

When I transferred to London, I got London weighting added to my basic salary, when I returned it was taken off.

If you're going to make a comment back it up with your own case.

This is my knowledge & experience, it yours is different, please enlighten us :smt076

Typical of this government. Get us average Joes fighting amongst ourselves while they line the pockets of the rich.

In my view public sector terms and conditions should be market leaders that the private sector aspire to.

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

I earn a reasonable salary and live in a lower cost region. Where I live is my choice and does have its downside. I paid my mortgage off 10 years ago. So if my employers were to say off you go to work from our offices in xyz. There is little chance I would be able to buy equivalent housing for what I was able to sell at. This to me is the issue with regional variations. I have had colleagues sell their london/south east semis and buy 5 bedroom detached when they locate up here. Accepting that they could never afford to return.

Perhaps by scrapping a single wage structure, the true cost of a region would be better reflected. Lowering in low cost areas would mean that the saving could be redirected to the higher cost making salaries better reflect local cost.

But the danger is that this would escalate the north south divide etc.


My colleagues based in Rugby would always complain they were paid less than the Manchester staff. Manchester having to pay more to attract engineers from other businesses where in Rugby there were fewer choices of employers. Where did they close. Yes Manchester

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

Which is why London weighting is paid to some public sector staff, so that they can just about afford to live in London. Otherwise they would have trouble filling any public sector jobs, as there was no overtime or shift pay that came with most of these jobs.

One of my mates couldn't afford & didn't want to live in London, so his London weighting paid for his season ticket, but he was seriously going to have to move back to a local office after the train fares went up, until he got another job.

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

The way it was worded on the news yesterday, was they were looking to freeze it in poorer areas........now forgive me if I'm wrong but isn't that just another way to make the rich/poor North/South divide even bigger? Looks to me that ******** looking after the economy is only looking after him and his rich chums!
If you freeze pay in poorer areas with all the petrol and other rises people can't afford to live

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

Yes, correct

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

Amazed* at the union guy who said yesterday that public sector should be paid MORE so that when they spent it, the private sector would gain!
What planet is he on?
* No. not really.

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

I do believe remuneration packages should be competitive between similar jobs across industries/professions irrespective of public/private sector.

This does not simply mean salary, there is the whole package:- pensions, contract terms/conditions etc.

What could be used as an argument by some is that paying higher than the going rate in poorer areas it gives those a higher disposable income and that can trickle into the local economy. In truth that extra goes to the Japanese car manufacturer or the Spanish hotel operator etc. Therefore the argument should be the reverse. By restricting the ability of those who live in poorer areas to spend outside of the UK we are helping to bring down trade deficits.

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

It was late, I was grumpy, my apologies :D

I was simply trying to state that not all public sector workers who work in London get a London weighting allowance. I have worked in the public sector for 12 years now and have not received (nor am I entitled to) and sort of regional remuneration. I choose to live and work in this region so why should I be compensated for it?

In my experience public sector workers do not get paid more than equivalent private sector jobs so I don't know where the government get their figures from.....maybe they are better at generating spin than the last government in order to get the majority of the public behind their ideas.

Actually, if this latest scheme comes into effect then I would be looking at a 20% increase in pay so maybe they haven't thought this through completely.........

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

No problem, perhaps I should have said SOME get London weighting.

In my neck of the woods we get more than most office workers, but we work shifts incl nights.

If it were basic salary, then it would be about the same.

I do think a lot of this is spin, creates bad feeling against the public sector by the private sector, which undermines the public sector pay arguements = Govenment wins

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

The Government creating spin to help them facilitate a change in their favour?

Never been done, why would they do it now? Perhaps because they have to find a way of finding money from nowhere (by nowhere I mean joe publics pocket).

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

Not sure I completely understand your reply.

Public servants have never been popular with any Tory govenment, slash and burn, cut wages, its always the same. Although as I said earlier they've never picked on the Police before.

I don't disagree with trying to resolve the financial crisis, but as Dizzy said picking on the poorer regions isn't going to boost their local economies. Moving jobs out of London to the cheaper regions would save money and boost jobs in those areas

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

Stop stop - my sides are hurting!
http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/laughing/rolling.gif


I wonder if the names 'Alistair Campbell' and Peter 'Mandleson' mean anything to Toynbee's terrors? No? How conveniently the left reinvent the past, revisionism is alive and well and living at the Grauniad, the paper that spent the thirteen wasted years from '97 onwards supporting Bliar and McBroon in their quest to spin so hard the entire country could have done their washing in the nearest puddle, but now they think that spin is somehow wrong?

And in that they more effectively state why no-one should waste their money on trash like the Grauniad than I any words I could write could ever do. Truly pathetic.

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

Just a shame they haven't been able to deal with all the ' non-jobs ' promoted by the previous lot!
There also appear to be concerted attempts by councils ( including Tory ) to maintain these at the expense of necessary services - perhaps to hold on to thei ' empires ' until the bitter end?

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

I wonder if different MP's will have their wages cut because of where they live?

And they can't argue for equal pay because their expenses cover the London living...

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

the CONservatives wont be happy till the less well off are paying more tax and earning/paid less money and the top 5% who are paying to much tax and cant afford to heat there swimming pools will get there 50%tax reduced to 40% on earnings over 150k or so

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

I don't understand the problem with that Paul. People seem to forget that tax is a percentage, so If you are earning over £150k you are already paying well in excess of what the rest of us are paying. Also if you are in a job paying in excess of £150k you are probably in a job that is of significant benefit to the economy on other ways (and we're talking about people who are 'earning' here, not just rich due to their family).

If I got promoted to be MD of a company, surely I am contributing to the economy in other ways than just my income tax.... By the success of my company etc.

Re: Public Pay to be brought in line with Private
 

That's true, but in our mob, a lot of the essential jobs have to be done by me now.

There's still some non jobs in our lot, I get an email from someone, I think WHY do we need someone to do this??????????

There is still too much waste and crazy contracts that we've signed up for and the most overstaffed & complex method of paying bills that could be streamlined