Kids left in cars
 

Just walked past a car in a town centre car park, and the alarm was going off, so I looked at the car and through the windscreen there was kid sitting in there probably 4-5 years old. I looked around and the only person there was a woman who I thought at the time was the mother getting a ticket at the machine about 20yds away, looking nervously at the car. So I thought OK, and went to the shops.

Came back 5 minutes or so later, and the alarm is still going off, no sign of that woman, and the kid's still in the car and it certainly has been for at least the 3 or 4 minutes I've been away. The car is obviously locked and secure as the alarm is going off, and the kid looks like it's quite happy patiently waiting.

I then walked across the car park got into my car on the other side of the car park, saw 25 degrees Celsius on the dashboard, and my climate control come on full blast. So I think 'Bolox, looks OK or not, I can't leave that kid locked in that car', so I drove back round the car park to where the car was, and the car had gone. It is possible the kid was only there for 4 or 5 minutes.

Now I'm wondering whether I did the right thing initially, the woman at the ticket machine might just have been another bystander, looking at the car because the alarm was going off, but I assumed it was the mother going back to the car as soon as she bought her ticket.

Point of the thread and my question is: What would you do if you saw a kid locked in a car in a public car park in 25 degrees of heat?

Re: Kids left in cars
 

I would call the local plod on their local non emergency number. If they saw an animal in a car they would break it out, same with a kiddie.
That and also hope the parent gets a kick up the rear!

Re: Kids left in cars
 

I would say, give it 5 minutes of your own time and wait. If the situation hasn't changed, calling the plod makes sense to me too. There are so many parents out there that are thick beyond mortal comprehension. Better to be safe than sorry.

Besides, if you called the plod and she came back a few minutes later (i.e. wasn't putting the kid at risk), then she'd drive off none the wiser. Then you can give them a bell and tell them she's left. Not to worry.

How long does it take for a car to reach a dangerous temperature on a hot day? (some expert in dogs must know this). Waiting five minutes of my own time would mean at least ten minutes the kid had been in the car, then another 10 for the plod to turn up. I'd be more inclined to smash a window first.

Re: Kids left in cars
 

Depends what colour it is... my van is only vaguely white (it was, once), and it's not too bad. The works van is grey and heats up really quickly in comparison. Enough difference to notice.

Re: Kids left in cars
 

I'm guessing you'd hang about after calling the plod? You could then keep an eye on the kid. Bang on the window. Make sure he/she is awake and not crying, suffering, too sleepy etc. If they are, put a brick through the window .... and every other one just to make sure. ;)

I'd be tempted to leave at that point though. The way the law is, you probably get prosecuted for criminal damage.

Re: Kids left in cars
 

I would have to dial 999 as the non urgent number 101 is customer services from my mobile. When to intervene is a big problem, however better to be safe than sorry. Intervention may (only may) bring the seriousness of the situation to the attention of the adult. I have struggled to think of any reason for leaving a child that young alone, be it at home in the car or anywhere else.

Re: Kids left in cars
 

If the kid looked okay I'd have done what you did, if the kid seemed in distress it's a different matter.

Re: Kids left in cars
 

In this part of the world it is illegal and socially unacceptable to leave a child (or animal) unattended in a car for the same reasons being discussed. The lessons were learned the hard way. There was some research has been done on this in Australia and IIRC temperatures can reach dangerous levels, as much as double the outside temperature in the sort of time frame that you mention.

Bricking a window and getting the police on the scene is the responsible thing to do. Here we also have good Samaritan laws (in some states) which in most situations absolve liability when aiding others. I'd be surprised if you don't have something similar.

Re: Kids left in cars
 

Are you kidding? In France you are actually obliged to try and help.

No, here in the good old UK you'll get done if you touch anything or anyone. Best to leave everything alone and watch them die.

(No, I don't really mean that last bit..........#-o )

Re: Kids left in cars
 

A few years ago I was window cleaning and we saw an elderly lady on the floor of her sitting room. She was obviously unconscious as she was in a state of partial undress and this was very out of character. I called 999 explained the situation and as a trained first aider offered to break in and see if I could help. I was told no and to wait for the police & ambulance. It took over 10 minutes for them to arrive and gain entry. As it happens she had been dead a long time. But 10 minutes of CPR may have been a life saver.

Sadly If you broke in and hurt yourself you could claim against the police for your injuries for allowing you to do it.

Re: Kids left in cars
 

That unfortunately is a complete crock. We should have legislation in place that prevents this from happening.

Thankfully common sense would prevail in a criminal case (I'd like to think) however with ambulance chasing civil solicitors on every corner it's easier to settle than dispute. :-/ most people JP would injure themselves helping others are thankfully not the sort to then pursue a claim but there's always a few...

Re: Kids left in cars
 

I spent many an unhappy hour in the car waiting for my father as a child, but the big difference is that in the old days you could wind down the windows. The back windows in our Fiesta are manual, but in the Volvo you are stuck with electric windows. What would I do, I don't know, I suppose it would depend on the outside temperature and how long I had seen the kids in the car for.

Re: Kids left in cars
 

...Allows anyone trying to claim off this sort of sh*te to be taken out the back of the courthouse and have the living sh*t kicked out of them.

Re: Kids left in cars
 

Times have changed. Mothers used to leave babies in prams outside shops, unthinkable now.

Re: Kids left in cars
 

I live next to a school and a couple of months ago noticed that a mother (and childminder) was leaving 3 babies in the car whilst she went to collect her older child from school. On the first couple of occasions I thought it odd, but then I started to regularly see her do it and decided to time how long the kids were left. When I noticed that they were left for 15 minutes, I took down her number plate and called the police. Would you be happy if you found out the child minder was leaving your child unattended for that length of time? What if one of them had been choking or god forbid some idiot crashed into the parked car.....

The police paid her a visit and she doesn't do it anymore (well, not at school anyway).

Yes you did the right thing Ralph. I won't even leave my daughter in the car while I go to pay for petrol, and she is four years old.

Re: Kids left in cars
 

Can you imagine the distress that would cause to the child who, as Ralph said, was quite content sat there waiting patiently. Some random dude comes over and bricks the window whilst you're waiting for your parent to come back from the shop with your sweets.

Re: Kids left in cars
 

as someone who spends a large amount of time in the back of a black can i can tell you i gets uncomfortably got very quickly. lost count the number of times i've been stripped down to my pants having to pour water over me to keep cool in the summer!

i am sure there's a law or rule somewhere saying if you see a dog in distress inside a car you are legally allowed to break in amd free it, perhaps there is he same for kids. but as others have said, could be a bit of a minefield.

Re: Kids left in cars
 

Weak..

Children are resilient and upsetting them a little can be better than the potential consequences. It'll upset their mum a whole lot more...

The word "brick" is used metaphorically.

Re: Kids left in cars
 

So easily could have been one of those tragic but preventable deaths you read about in the tabloids, so Ralph i think it was the correct and responsible action to take and hats off to you mate.

Re: Kids left in cars
 

Matt, remember we're not in Oz and these temperatures, although we think they are hot are actually not. I agree with your strategy for any length of time, but calling Nobbys post weak is a little harsh.

Over here there is a serious consideration that damage from flying glass etc would do more harm - I certainly would keep an eye on the situation like Ralph, or report it but wouldnt smash a window unless the child was in distress or passing out.

With regard to the not leaving your child while you go to pay for petrol? Why not? I don't understand this?

And with the god forbid a car crashes into them..... Your being there isn't going to change this...... You would probably be injured too...... The logic doesn't quite work for me.

True I don't have kids, but I have a lot of friends who do, and there are those that wrap up with cotton wool and those that don't. Those that don't (in my limited friendship groups) seem to have more capable, independent, developed children probably completely off point but I think there are unseen negatives in being too protective.

Re: Kids left in cars
 

disagreee massively with this bit, dogs (police dogs for that matter) have been known to die in vehicles so what's to say the same couldn't happen to a child?

Re: Kids left in cars
 

My mother used to leave me in the car for a few minutes at a time (usually to go in to grab dry cleaning or something). Once we had a car with all power windows she'd leave me the keys (so I could open them for more air or close them if anyone dodgy came past) and strict instructions to honk the horn like crazy if anything was wrong.

Re: Kids left in cars
 

Don't get me wrong I agree with you, but those dogs are there for periods of 30minutes - an hour or more.

If you come across this situation, unless the child is in obvious distress, you have no way of knowing if it's been 2 minutes or 5 or more. If you keep an eye on it and it goes on for a length of time then fine.... make a judgement call, but simply condemning the fact that a child is in the car, or gaining entry to a car when you first come across it for this reason is a massive over reaction.

Thats why what the OP did seems right to me. A measured reaction, taking note of the situation, but considering doing something more if the time became too long, or the child looked upset.

Re: Kids left in cars
 

Keep your eye on the situation, ring the old bill if it seems a worryingly long time, break a window if you believe there is a serious risk to life.

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Heat-ex.../Symptoms.aspx

Re: Kids left in cars
 

Exactly...whipping oneself up into a frenzy at the mere sight of a youngster left for a few minutes before smashing in the windows, only to find that the parent has gone to get change for the meter, might make you look like a bit of self-righteous twonk.

Re: Kids left in cars
 

My older brother's mother forgot him outside Woolworths, she got all the way home before she realised, he was still there in his pram sound asleep.

When we were young my mum left my younger brother and I in the car, he was busy playing with the steering wheel and managed to put the steering lock on, she could not get it off. She did occasionally leave us in the car after that, but we were so banned from touching the steering wheel.

Re: Kids left in cars
 

A dog can die in a hot car in less than 10 minutes. This is less time than it would take a child to die to suffer the same fate as humans have the ability to sweat...dogs don't. Dogs will pant to try and cool themselves, when they run out of water though, panting becomes useless to them and they literally cook inside the car. It would be the same as microwaving a dog in simple terms as it is their core temperature that makes their organs shut down. So...if you see a dog in a hot car, panting like mad...I would suggest calling around loudly for the owner, waiting a max of two minutes unless the dog looks to already be very distressed, then I would break in AND call the cops.

With a child/children, I would probably just wait around and if I saw that the child got distressed, would call the police or intervene. As far as time is concerned, if I had been waiting 15 minutes or more and no adults...I think I would make a call.

It's a fine line, but I would rather be called an interfering twonk than sit by and watch a child suffer.

Re: Kids left in cars
 

On the topic of broken glass hurting a child...get a sharp pointed, strong object...preferably metal point, hold it against the glass tight into one of the top corners of the window and hit the end hard with a hammer or whatever you have. That way the glasslike shatter completely, leaving no sharp edges and it will not spray into the vehicle either. if you just hit at the window in any old fashion, yes...someone could well get serious injuries from the broken glass.

I am sure there will be someone on here that can give a better description of how to do this than me, but I was shown it years ago and it works!

Re: Kids left in cars
 

Agree with everything you've said.

Taking your kid out of the car when you pay for fuel is a horrific over-reaction. Too many kids are over-protected nowadays and as you say, they are the ones who have trouble interacting with others. My kids were never wrapped in cotton wool, my eldest rode her bike to school 2 miles away and did so from the age of 8 or 9, when she moved to a school 8 miles away at age 11 she took the bus alone or with friends, when she came home from school she took her crosser over the pits with mates and spent an hour or so tearing round and falling off. My other three were outside playing whenever they could, they climbed trees and fell out of them, they gave each other backies on bikes and crashed them, they went to the park as a bunch of kids and played there until curfew time, they got left in the car at petrol stations and didn't care less... and nor did we. Just before I started seeing their mum (who was a friend from years before) I remember going to the bank and seeing Jane's car parked outside with the three of them inside it (eldest aged 5) and mum in the bank, in fact it was that chance meeting with her in the bank that was the start of our relationship.

In today's world kids need to toughen up not be pampered into non-existence. Half the kids I see today have serious social skills difficulties and I do wonder if it's over-protective parents who are to blame for it.

A child under 18months, 2 years to be safe does not have the ability to sweat or control their body temperature unfortunately this is the age group which also fall asleep instantly in a car so a parent popping in to the shops for a couple of items for tea may think leaving the child sleeping is doing everybody a favour but getting innocently stuck in a large que could be that child's death sentence, sadly it does happen or so the glossy mags at the docs say it does.

In your situation Ralph is be less worried of instant danger if the alarm wasn't going off. Id be wondering, was the kid too hot so tried to open the door, this set off the alarm and now he/she is playing musical statues in preparation of a "I didn't do it" plea when their parent returns. If so then this kid needs help but an approach to the car can easily be misconstrue so my FIRST action would be to collar another witness preferably a woman who can go ask the child if they're ok with out an ironically over protective parent returning and seeing a bloke encouraging their child to open the door. If the 2nd witness finds the child to be dazed/confused then it's time to bring out the big guns and start popping glass. T-shirt round your hand and punch through the glass, try ignore the glass and instead pretend to be going to punch the headrest or steering wheel hit it fairly square on and you'll pop it no problem they take surprisingly little effort to put through.

Re: Kids left in cars
 

Regardless of temperature, I don't think that leaving a 4 or 5 year old child unsupervised is a responsible thing to do. This isnt about pampering or developing independence, its about carrying out your obligations as a parent or guardian.

This doesn't need to be anal, simply done responsibly. If you can see your child well enough to ensure they are supervised then I think fine. Leaving them in a car to wander off to the bank, shops, whatever is not. Not at that age.