Upgrading the internals on stock SV forks?
 

I have been wondering around on this forum for some time, but haven't found what I was looking for. You all know the most urgent modification on the SV, which is mounting better springs and thicker oil. However, on the website of the Minitwin Championship (especially this part http://www.minitwins.co.uk/suppliers/mhpexhausts.html) I found these two options:

Product Fork Springs & Preparation (Maxton)
Machine Suzuki SV650S
Price £ 300
Comments Includes modified internals, springs and all preparation

Product Fork Springs & Preparation (Maxton)
Machine Suzuki SV650S
Price £ 479
Comments Includes complete revalve, springs and all preparation

Is there someone out there who can tell what they mean with modified internals or a revalve on the stock SV fork? GSX-R forks aren't allowed in the Minitwin Championship, so this is definitely for a stock fork. But that's damping rod fork and not a cartridge fork... :?:

Any help would be appreciated. I'm still looking for something better than the stiffer springs I already have in my fork right now. :thumbsup:

I'd drop Maxton a line, see what they have in mind. I think they're a Race Tech dealer, from memory. As you picked up, you can't revalve a stock fork since it has no valves ;)

Will try that. Hopefully I get an answer, although I don´t live in the UK.

I thought that perhaps some members of the forum who race in the Minitwin championship would have some experience with this sort of modifications.

:shock: :shock: £300!!!! Christ!!!

it took my dad and I about 2 1/2 hours on saturday to fit hagon progressive springs and 15w oil to Daisy. And we had neither clue nor experience, just a haynes manual and a torque wrench.

The springs and oil only cost £62.50 (full retail, inc vat), so how many cups of tea were they planning to make whilst they knock out your springs and charge you £237.50 for the privilage?

I'll upgrade mine on Saturday with ohlins.

Just having trouble getting 15WT oil. None of the local dealers have it in Stock - not even Hein Gericke.

I wonder why as 15WT seems the most popular choice.

Well, it's not about the springs alone. As you can see they also offer modified internals and/or a complete revalve. The thing I would like to know is what that means on stock SV forks.

I imagine a revalve would be adding emulators.

I've just gone from using 15w oil back down to 10w and now wish I'd never gone with 15. With decent springs, the right amount of fresh oil, and the correct air gaps, I've found that 10w makes the front end far more pliant and rides over irregular and corrugated surfaces far better.

Compression and rebound seem markedly improved. Okay it dives slightly more than 15w but once you're aware of that then you adjust your riding accordingly. I'm now convinced that a thicker fork oil just masks the SV's basic suspension traits and actually detracts from it's efficiency.


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Re: Upgrading the internals on stock SV forks?
 

No need. My husband does the Ohlins setup for half the minitwin paddock for alot less than that!. Involves, Ohlins springs, Racetec emmulators and oil and spacers and works superbly well!.

BTW MHP send the majority of work on suspension to us now - Mike update your site!!!

Not sure what they mean by modded internals though but simply fitting springs and emmulators is good enough for most people road or race. If you can outride that front end setup that way then you should be on the grid and not sat at the traffic lights :lol: :lol:

Re: Upgrading the internals on stock SV forks?
 

LOL wondered when you'd see this thread.

I'd just like to say i would recommend Steve Jordan Motorcycles to anyone regarding Suspension setup/service. Steve set my forks up for me last year and now has them back again after i decided i prefered them bannana shaped and will also be supplying and setting up my ohlins shock aswell.

Also he's a nice bloke aswell and would probably quite happily give you any advice you need when requested(although not atm as he's besy with my forks LOL!!!).

Well, the lads at Maxton are pretty fast with answering their e-mails. :thumbsup: Within one hour I got the following:

- The £300.00 option involves modifying the original damper rod system so there is damping inside the forks. This is a revalve of the damper rod system, we also replace the springs for harder springs.

- The £479.00 option involves completely replacing the fork internals with a modern cartridge damping system. This cartridge is built to suit your rider weight and what you use the bike for. This also comes with harder springs. As part of this conversion we also replace the forks tops with our own. The new Maxton tops have adjustable preload and rebound damping.


Especially the last option looks similar to fitting CBR F2/F3 inner tubes in the stock SV outer tubes. But still a little expensive indeed.

Re: Upgrading the internals on stock SV forks?
 

Hi Sarah, do you know roughly how much a fork upgrade would cost at your workshop? I'm booked for a remap but might get the forks sorted too.

Ora an estimate for parts only and a little set-up advice/guidance please. :)

I'd stick with the emulator route, I have re-done a couple of sets of Maxton damper rod conversions and they either make a complete damper rod out of aluminium with smaller holes so they can run light oil, but have had a couple of sets making a clonk sound like headraces, down to the size of the valve.

The cartridge conversion uses R6 cartridges which give you preload and rebound adjustment (by taking fork caps off to be minitwin legal) but they never seem to work as well as a good emulator setup, which once setup doesn't really need any fiddling with.

expect to pay £225-£250 for emulators and springs fitted (£180 odd of that parts)

Between Steve and I we have pretty much covered most of the Minitwin paddock

ps Sarah, Just booked Snett on the 5th so will be unpainted, but need to ride it

Yup Rob is a good bloke too..think we both have the monopoly on the minitwin grid at the moment!. Mainly down to running a good setup without having to go too fancy!.

The price Rob suggests is about right..does depend on whether the forks are loose or not but its down to individual needs. Drop me a PM if you need more info.

Rob - Cool looking forward to that - just hope its not raining!. Steve might bell you later anyway regarding the electrical bits you were after... :wink:

If you want an interesting, and absurdly expensive, alternative... Traxxion are in full production for their AK-20 cartridge kit for the SV. I'm pretty sure it'd be minitwins legal, and by all accounts it's far andd away the best mod for standard SV forks. Also, amusingly enough, costs $1200US :shock:

I dont think the traxxion unit that changes the external look of the fork (IE it has a different fork cap with the rebound adjuster showing) is minitwins legal!!!!!!


Anyway if Matt Bond can wizz round Cadwell in a 1.38 with just fork springs and emmulators i couldnt see the justification in spending nearly £800!!. For that id get a GSXR750/600K4 front end fitted with some 20mm Ohlins kit in it..pound for pound it would work out less once you have sold the SV bits you no longer need!!

Is that so? Thought it was, since it uses the same fork body. I remember seeing photos of a minitwins bike that had CBR internals done, which also had different caps. But then, I don't actually know the rules, just assumed that if that one was legal then these would be ;)

Totally agree that it's crazy money though. It's been quite funny watching Max McAllister's position change on them. At first he was saying "Emulators for the road, or a GSXR swap, these are only for people whose racing class requires stock fork bodies". Now, as soon as people started buying them for street bikes, it's "These are the best things ever for a street bike, you'd have to be mad to fit a GSXR front". Which considering you can fit a stock GSXR front for basically free, once you sell the stock bits, it's quite funny.

maybe its because he is selling the product rather than looking at what works best!.

You dont need anything more than the emmulators and springs.

Yup for minitwins the fork cap must remain as std barring the rule where you can update your older bike with parts from the newer model - IE fit K2 fork caps to the K1 bike to give preload adjustment.

Maybe I'm just cynical, but that's my assumption too... I wonder if that cheating bike's still racing then? ;)

which was that then?. I hadnt seen one at bemsee but then again i didnt tend to look too closely..trouble is i am sure one website is advertising them as minitwin legal......confusing for newbies. Unless they do one without the top rebound adjuster showing externally.

Dunno... I was thinking about doing the CBR internals myself at the time. A while back, anyway. Think it had a GSXR race skin on it.

Thanks for the info! My main concern about the emulator set-up is the part of adjusting it right for street AND track use. On the street I don't brake hard alot, but on the track I do! That's why I started buying GSX-R parts for a conversion, but both inner tubes of the GSX-R600 fork (2002) I have are damaged and need to be replaced. :cry: So I'm thinking of selling the whole lot again and go for something that doesn't require buying used parts, like the emulator set-up.

Besides that, I would have to buy lineair springs because I've heard and read that progressive springs (which I have now) don't really work with the emulators. Correct?

Springs cause all sorts of arguements but having ridden the emmulator setup both on road and on track i would go for linear being as they are easier to setup.

If the emmulators are setup right in the first place along with the air gap you shouldnt have a problem switching between road and track. Its how they are setup thats important to get a good balance between the two scenarios. If you need any help steve is always willing to chat!.

My cartridge fork conversion from Maxton is excellent, expensive but well worth it in my opinion. Had it done last July and did a track day at Cadwell soon after - I couldn't beleive how much better they were :) :) :)

How much are the Ohlins springs, do they lower the front end at all? (so turn in better for corners)

Off the top of my head I think OHLINS=£75ish MAXProgressive£55ish and a litre of fork oil £6 If I'm wrong sure somebody will correct this post I don't know which model year you have but the pre-load adjusters are a must to get the best performance for minimum outlay I'm sure this moderate change is adequate for normal street and back lane riding

I agree... I went to the Ohlins springs and 15W oil, then up to the GSXR front end. Now, the GSXR front is many, may times better, but that doesn't make the simple oil and spring swap bad- it never once screamed out for upgrading.

Plus, if you go with springs and oil, your options are still wide open for further upgrades- cartridge emulators, which IMO take you well up to diminishing return territory in terms of cost.

Northwind: Have you got the same fork length now that you changed to GSXR forks. If you were to compare the measured length from the top yoke to the floor of a stock SV and you GSXR modified front would it be the same? Have you got the same travel in suspension as stock SV?

A wee bit shorter. The forks are about 15mm shorter- though I had my SV forks 10mm through the yokes, and I fitted a 120/70 tyre to raise the front again (obviously affects the wheelbase too, though.) As for travel, couldn't really say for sure. I'd presume less, but wouldn't want to put figures on how much or little.

Actually , they are more like 30mm shorter.

Cheers
Ben

Listen to Ben, I never actually checked them that closely ;) However, I did check the height under compression and it was around 15mm shorter on mine.

You got the wrong Springs in them then 'INNIT' :? :lol: .

Cheers
Ben

They might be the "wrong" springs but they work a charm ;) never had the forks open so I coupldn't tell you for sure what's in them to be honest.

Good point actually. You have pm :lol:

Cheers
Ben

No I don't. You're undermining your credibility here ;)

:shock: Ok have a look now :roll: :lol:

Cheers
Ben