SV650.org - SV650 & Gladius 650 Forum

SV650.org - SV650 & Gladius 650 Forum (http://forums.sv650.org/index.php)

- Idle Banter (http://forums.sv650.org/forumdisplay.php?f=116)

- - Being at the back (http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=68265)

Being at the back

We are organising a rideout and it seems that everyone wants to be at the back. Now, i know that this is a physical impossibility, but, why do people feel that they need to be there?

Isnt a rideout a thing where like minded riders get togehter and ride. Its not a race.

So pelase explain, that if youa re one of these type of people, why do you feel you need to go at the back of a rideout?

Re: Being at the back

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viney

Because I ride so slowly I am usually at the back? :twisted:

Not a deliberate effort, just that I dont feel the need to hoon everywhere and I bide my time.

Dunno

I like being at the front, that way you are following the one person on the rideout who knows where they are going therefore theres less chance of getting lost.
If I end at the back of a pack of riders I'll overtake my way through the group till I end up at the front again.

Like to ride in the top 1/3 myself.

The other thing I find is that if you are at the back you have to ride much faster in order to keep up due to traffic lights and stuff like that splitting the pack up.

Maybe it like the hard / naughy kids at School who used to sit at the back of the classroom or at the back of the bus so they could smoke.

I reckon it's the people that can't ride properly and don't want anyone seeing them f*ck up every corner so they go at the back where no one can see.

Well thats why i go at the back anyway :oops:

Generally I'm "at the back" on two occasions.

The first is because I don't rush to go and take a little time "getting dressed".

The second everyone has passed me and I'm finishing my fag brake :wink:

I'm also "at the front"

I always know where I'm going.

Also I need to get ahead so I can stop for the afore mentioned fag brake :lol:

Cheers Mark.

Unless someone is more comfortable at the back due to their acceptance that they are a slowish rider,then it is to be avoided I think.

Recent rides to unfamiliar territory for me had me deciding to stay at the back to gain an idea of severity of bends etc. by watching the guys in front. However they tend to ride at such a pace that I have been literally hammering it to stay in touch!
This can put altogether too much pressure on the back marker. Middle of the pack in future for me. :wink:

I never aim to be at the back but always end up there :oops:

Can't really answer, not enough people come out to play for me to experience this..

Rant over... I know people are starting to play out now but I've been OH SO LONLEY since November :-({|=

I know and fully accept I am far from the fastest rider and still have a long way to go before I 'COMMIT' fully into corners so I am happy following, but at the same time I do like to hoof it a little so I think middle-front of the pack is good

I don't like overtaking people when on a rideout with a group, I always worry that those people will think that I am presuming to be better than them when in reality I think a teenager on a Raleigh Activator can 'out twistie me'

:lol:

Stretchie

If you're trying to stay together, the slower riders need to go at the front, following the leader. The guy/gal at the back usually has to work a damn-sight harder to keep up with the group, so should be a good, quick rider.

A large run I went on last year, we used the dropper system. This means that the bloke following the leader stops to mark the way and ends up at the tail of the pack where the sweeper picks him up again. Some blokes would then blast pass everyone in the pack to get back to the front once more and be dropper again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chazzyb

See that was my logic and then because you are up at the front you get used as markers on roundabouts and then end up at the back of the pack having no way of catching everyone up!!

..... or in my case being forgotten about and having to be rescued when people realise i am missing at the next meeting place :oops:

The back isn't the place to be as you can lose people on the filtering/overtaking if its a little busy. The only time I ride at the back is if I have a new rider in front and I want to protect them (wing man!) from other traffic. But as Viney says, this isn't a race - never being on a ride out with you guys - what's the pace usually like - I would have thought not that fast if the groups fairly large (as in number, not full of large people!) with riders of mixed ability.

As has been mentioned, the people at the back always need to ride faster to offset the need for (generally) more overtakes, getting stuck at lights, roundabouts, etc.

I generally don't like riding in a group that's over five bikes. Big rideouts (with the exception of the well marshalled AR) are a bit of a turn off as there are too many chances of a mishap IMO.

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by e.d.

I reckon it's the people that can't ride properly and don't want anyone seeing them f*ck up every corner so they go at the back where no one can see.

Well thats why i go at the back anyway :oops:

I think its a confidence thing, e.d. makes a joke about it but I think has a valid point. The guys I normally ride with have about 50 years biking experience between them. This makes me very concious of my inexperience if I am leading.

Although I don't enjoy going in front, (and would be much happier at the back) it is usefull as my mates will give me feedback on my riding and give me tips on where I can improve.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anna

I never aim to be at the back but always end up there :oops:

There is more truth to this statement. Not in the case of Anna, but ingeneral. people seem to find there own place in a ride, and thats where they uaualy stay. Its just that you seem to get epople fighting to be at the back, and it just makes me chuckle.

There always has to be a back marker, and this is to round up any lost people, and generaly should know the route etc, and is happy to take charge if needed, and Big Ape done a fantastic job of this on the AR, although even that went wrong(people got lost, but Viney sense got us there in the end)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonboy

I generally don't like riding in a group that's over five bikes. Big rideouts (with the exception of the well marshalled AR) are a bit of a turn off as there are too many chances of a mishap IMO.

.

Very true. If you are going for a spirited run then I try and stick with people I ride with regularly and no more than 5 - that's why I thought the pace here may be more sedate - I may be wrong though :twisted:

I only volunteered to stay at the back as I've had 10 months off the bike :oops: , and feel I need to be treated as a rookie - ie. given lots of room :lol:

I shall go at my own pace - if anyone wants to overtake, feel free
if anyone wants to follow, feel free :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by e.d.

I reckon it's the people that can't ride properly and don't want anyone seeing them f*ck up every corner so they go at the back where no one can see.

Well thats why i go at the back anyway :oops:

That sums me up atm :lol: , used to ride in the middle of the pack but since the accident i've never sorted myself out properly, hopefully confidence will come back this summer

Basically I don't want to mess up anyones else's ride, i'd rather ride my own ride and just keep up with the back marker.... Unless their worse then i'll move up :D

Tend to prefer smaller groups anyway, essex group rideouts are usually 3-9 people which is comfy, the kent rides I go on tend to be largeish groups, but I always have fun, my first ever rideout was with the selkenters

well the last ride out I was on (last sunday) I started at the back and seemed to end up near the front, there was me thinking I was a low rider, but we seemed to be going at a fair pace, and I was up front (behind about 3 bikes)

that was until the ****s arrived wheelying in totally inappropriate places and hooning around the corners (one crashed and one forced a car off the road :roll: )

I'm another lonely little soul who doen't have others to ride with so I have no idea whether I'd be better front. back. middle (of nowhere possibly!). :roll: :oops: :cry:

As long as I've got one person to follow who knows the way I'm fine I guess - I have the direction sense of a retarded homing pigeon so anyone behind me is getting lost anyway! :shock:

I ride where I'm needed, which is normally away from everyone else :oops: , but last time I was in a ride out I went at the back as I knew the route and could help direct the stragglers and cars. I ended having to lead a second group so I guess I was at the front whilst being behind. :?

Generally I will be closer to the people I normally ride with, as I know how they ride and enjoy that. If the group is bigger I've always been towad the front it seems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Stretchie_

And here was me thinking you only rode behind me to check out my a*se... :shock:

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Saxo

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Stretchie_

And here was me thinking you only rode behind me to check out my a*se... :shock:

Ha haa :laughat:

KerNOB. Don't get me started sonny, you have to GET YOUR BIKE OUT for someone to follow you....

:stupid:

P.S. Luv you..

What you doing on Saturday fatty

Quote:

Originally Posted by K

I'm another lonely little soul who doen't have others to ride with so I have no idea whether I'd be better front. back. middle (of nowhere possibly!). :roll: :oops: :cry:

Let me know when you're back in the saddle (when your wonky knees work :lol: ) and I'll make an overdue trip up to HG in Northampton which could double as a nice easy ride for an hour or two if you'd like. Oh and you just have to get yourself down to Soho sometime this summer :wink: .

.

It's at times like this I feel quite lonely down here... :cry: :-({|=

:wink:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Filipe M.

It's at times like this I feel quite lonely down here... :cry: :-({|=

:wink:

I'll come over to visit .. could do with a holiday! :lol:

why not use the marker system for rideouts ?

its the best way :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bikageboy

why not use the marker system for rideouts ?

its the best way :)

the marker system is fine and works well, the only trouble is you need thoughs participating to be aware of how it works, you can't "ride with your mate" in the group, or you have to have a core of riders who systematically work their way to the front in order to do it, it's more for larger rideouts.

the "keep the rider behind in your mirrors" only require minimal participation, allows a constant rear marker and is less hassle on the day.

Cheers Mark.

Maybe it's so all those in front will pick up any punctures that are going to happen. :wink:

There was a rather 'spirited' discussion on the Ecosse Posse board on the subject of rideout etiquette. This is a relevant extract

Quote:

Originally Posted by independentphoto

Quote:

RIDING IN GROUPS
by Ex. Insp. Kevin Fitzpatrick, in consultation with: Phil Curtis and Andy Morrison
Thames Valley Police Driving School

General

All of us love getting together with our friends and riding out on our bikes for either the day or the weekend, perhaps even longer. Whether it's a day at the coast or five days in the Black Forest in Germany the enjoyment is the same. Planning the route, sorting out the kit, prepping the bike and so on is all part of the fun. We all love it but are we always aware how easily it can end in tears?

I hate to say it but in the past few years there have been an increasing number of accidents (including fatal accidents) involving people riding in groups. Quite often the victim is either a newcomer to biking or someone who has only recently joined the group. Sometimes the group itself is new or had only got together for one ride.

Whatever the cause, with a few simple precautions and some common sense rules the run can not only be made safer but much more fun for all concerned. We have prepared the following to help organisers, who may be new to running trips, to plan a run with the benefit of other peoples (sometimes painful!) experiences.

A book such as 'Motorcyclists Welcome' by Peter Gleave is an invaluable asset when organising trips if you wish to ensure that your accomodation will be suitable for groups of motorcyclists and that secure parking is available. The added benefit that can be had is a photocopy of the page containing details of the location to which they're heading.

Route Planning

Whether you are looking for the quickest, motorway based route or a more challenging ride through the countryside you need to think about where you are going to make stops and to sort out rendezvous points in case you all get split up.

When making these plans you need to consider the comfortable range of all the bikes on the trip as well as the ability of the riders to ride for long distances.

To avoid mishap it is a good idea to give everyone a copy of:

the route to be taken (list of roads and/or a route map)
stopping places / rv points
each others mobile phone numbers
If someone does go astray they are less likely to get worried or do stupid things to catch up if they know where they are supposed to be heading and how to make contact with the rest of the group.

The Running Order

This is critical to get right if you want a safe and successful run for the whole gang so this point is worth spending some time on.

You often hear it said that you should put the slowest bike out in front - but think for a minute what will happen if you do that. The slowest one is frequently one of the least experienced riders on a less than quick bike, does he or she really want the responsibility of leading the way? What about the perceived pressure from those behind to 'get a move on!'? Or conversely, do the others really want to be stuck behind Timmy Slowcoach for the whole trip? Some fun that would be!

The reality is that it never happens. The group may start out with the slowest in front but pretty soon some of the others get fed up, start overtaking each other, blatting off and before you know it it's all gone to rats and you never get them together again this side of Christmas!

If, like me, you've found yourself at the ferry port waiting and wondering if the others are ever going to show up (especially the bloke with the tickets!) you'll know that this scenario is to be avoided like the plague!

So what is the best order to ride in?

Well for a start the leader/navigator should be out in front. He or she should have studied and be familiar with the route and should have the riding skills and the bike to make reasonable progress.

At the back you need a 'sweeper'. This should be an experienced member of the team (or a pair of good riders) on a big, reliable bike - one with a turn of speed if required. This rider should, like the leader, also be familiar with the route to be taken and should, if possible, have a mobile phone or other means of communication. The job of the sweeper is to look out for stragglers or break -downs and to make sure no-one gets left behind or has an accident without being noticed.

Between the leader and the sweeper you can afford to spread out a bit. Usually riders will pair up with people they know and little sub groups can form - not a problem if everybody is still singing from the same song sheet. As a rule it is best to keep the newer riders well up towards the front where they can be a bit protected by their more experienced companions.

Rules of the Road

When out on the road there are two golden rules for a successful group run and these need agreeing by everyone before the start:

No overtaking each other without prior planning and
Ride to the bike behind you not the one in front
There is nothing more likely to break up a group of riders than Tommy Teararse getting a cob on in the middle of the pack and burning off past everyone with one or two of the quicker bikes in hot pursuit.

Okay, it's their trip as well and you've no right to demand that they ride along with everybody else the whole time. What is fair though is that they wait for the stop then let you know they are going to be having a 'blat' on the next stage of the journey. You can then warn the rest that a couple of riders will be out of the group for a while and you can arrange to meet up at the next stop.

'Riding to the bike behind' is more serious and is the key to the whole concept of good group riding.

Basically, one of the main causes of accidents is when the riders in the group play 'follow my leader' and constantly try to keep up with the bike in front. You often see riders towards the back of a group doing stupid things like overtaking on white lines, flying into blind bends, speeding in the most inappropriate places and even jumping red lights in an effort to catch up.

This can easily be avoided, without having to crawl along in a big group, if you just keep the bike behind you in your mirrors all the time. That way you can make as much progress as you like and only need slow down or stop if you can't see that bike for any extended period. Certainly, never turn left or right or deviate from the 'ahead' course without being sure that the follower has seen you.

By exercising this simple technique you will be amazed how you can enjoy the higher speed runs along more challenging roads without having to sacrifice the group concept.

Worth paying any heed too folks?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rictus01

In the case of AR05, a core of riders who did just that formed about halfway round. I'm not quite sure why, but it worked out well for me.

[quote="Scooby Drew"]There was a rather 'spirited' discussion on the Ecosse Posse board on the subject of rideout etiquette. This is a relevant extract

Quote:

Originally Posted by independentphoto

Quote:

Tommy Teararse

:lol:

I go at the back to make sure I am behind !! scoobs...

dunno really- cud be wot E.D says ... maybe its shyness...

or ya dont want folk see ya dabbin the brakes every 2 secs!!...

I think it owrked really really well with the markers on corners at ar05 so everyone ended up at the back at somepoint

and the middle

and the front ...

Quiff wrote:

Quote:

I go at the back but make sure I am nowhere near Scoobs's behind !!

Smart move mate! :wink: :P