ignition retarder
 

any 1 here ever tryed removeing it?


i disconected mine today and it sounds so much better when your changeing gears from 1st to 2nd to 3rd and it picks up loads better rev hold much better feels a bit more torquey aswell

i have no idea what you're talking about, what did you remove? got pics?

:) Hi,Not done it yet,So it's worth doing then eh? And the difference is that noticeable? Umm,interesting...... 8)

takes from sv rider...



What’s it all about?
As you probably know, the SV has a “mapped” ignition system, which by modern car standards is fairly simple. A small box of electronics (I shall call it the “ignition controller”) measures things like engine revs and how far open the throttle is, then decides the correct time to fire the spark plugs as each piston approaches the top of its compression stroke. If the spark occurs too soon (i.e. the timing is advanced), pinking will occur with the possibility of engine damage; if the spark occurs too late (i.e. the ignition timing is retarded), then the power output from the engine will decrease. As the bike does not have ram-air induction and a pressurised airbox, you would expect the ignition controller to use the same “map” (or set of ignition timings), regardless of which gear the bike is in. This is the case, but with a subtle exception…
In certain territories, the bike has to pass a drive-by noise test, which apparently involves accelerating hard past a microphone in 2nd and 3rd gears. In order to get through this test, it seems Suzuki decided to cheat! They designed the ignition controller to retard the ignition timing when the bike is in 2nd and 3rd gears. This must reduce the noise enough to pass the test, but it also knocks the power back a little bit too. This is obviously a Very Bad Thing! For all the other gears, the standard ignition timing is used
What follows is essentially a description of the work done on my bike by my dealer, at their suggestion. I have simply taken some pictures and filled in a little background information. My bike is a UK, 2001 model SVS. I have purposely made this article quite noddy, for those who have never delved under the tank before, so I apologise if you’ve heard it all before

What’s the plan?
Simple. If the ignition controller doesn’t know when the bike is in 2nd or 3rd gear, it will use the same ignition timing as for all the other gears, so no power loss.

The ignition controller detects when the bike is in 2nd or 3rd gear by a switch in the gearbox. This switch has four contacts, as it also indicates when the bike is in neutral

One wire is a common earth (black with a white stripe in the diagram); one detects neutral (blue); and the remaining two wires (red with a yellow stripe and green with a blue stripe) detect 2nd and 3rd and go to the ignition controller. It is these two wires that we have to cut or disconnect.


What to do…
The wiring we need to disconnect is located under the tank. In order to lift the tank and gain access, we must first remove the seat. Begin by undoing the bolts that hold the black plastic side panels in place (there is one bolt per side).

It is not necessary to remove the plastic side panels, they can be swung outwards to reveal the seat mounting bolts (one per side).
Undo the seat mounting bolts and the seat can be lifted clear. Next undo the two bolts on top of the tank at the very front.

As the tank is hinged at its rear, the front can now be lifted to gain access to the wiring. There should be a metal rod under the rear seat to prop the tank up.
The wiring we need to gain access to is located on the left side of the bike, near the airbox, where there is a rubber boot that covers a 4-pin connector.

Slide the rubber boot forwards to gain access to the connector. The 4 wires entering the connector from the rear are from the gearbox. The red wire with a yellow stripe and the green wire with a blue stripe are the two wires we need to disconnect.

In this case, the 4-pin connector has been dismantled and the relevant contacts removed from one half, rather than just cutting the wires. Either way, it is important to insulate the bare ends. Heat shrink sleeving is preferable, or some self-amalgamating tape that most DIY shops sell. Electrical insulation tape is pretty useless as it tends to fall off when it gets hot.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


That’s about it. Now you’ll have enough power to wheelie on half throttle. Ok, I lied! Don’t expect miracles, I don’t think the increase is huge and remember it only affects 2nd and 3rd gears, but it must be a worthwhile modification or my dealer wouldn’t have suggested doing it, and it doesn’t cost you anything.
Oh, I nearly forgot… In the best Haynes tradition, re-fitting everything is simply the reverse of removal!




http://www.svrider.com/tips/retard/disconnect.jpg



http://www.svrider.com/tips/retard/Wiring_Diagram.jpg

well i felt it straight away and becouse my bike is restricted still the little extra torque is prob more noticable

and its sounds better changed up the egars aswell

I did the same thing on mine, but I felt no noticeable difference.

:? Wonder if the Pointy has this????????? Anyone know????
Speedy

sorry i did know what you're talking about then :oops:

nope, not done it, but i've heard that other's haven't found much difference

it can apparantly be done on the pointy i know theres a thread for it somewhere abouts on this site but unfortunatly cant remember where
im sure someone with the answer will pop along shortly

Yep did it to mine too. Like you, no discernable difference. The logic is sound mind and it cant do any harm :)

Sounds like BIKER-DENE has succumbed to the placebo if nothing else! :D

I'll do it tonight and ride tomorrow. Mine is 33bhp too (probably over it with the aftermarket can on :oops: ) and will let you know.

i found my front picked up easier in 2nd and 3rd!
does feel good!

I've seen a Timiing retard eliminator for sale on e-bay I think it does the same sort of thing, according to the product description anyway. :?

Possibly for the FI bikes?

Ok well I snipped the wires this morning.

The only thing I can possibly say onto others is to definetely TRY IT!! BUT DO NOT SNIP THE WIRES!! Get a thin bit of metal and remove the contacts...

I say that because now in top gear at 5k (70mph) it takes my bike about 10 seconds to get to 6k (80mph). It was less than half that before hand. All of my power seems to have shifted above 7k. Which you know, is great in 1st -3rd gear but pulling power on the motorway there is absolutely nothing. A 2t 125cc would pull better.

:(

Biker-dene, have you done a top gear roll on on your 33bhp bike yet? See if its the same as mine...

Dude, did you cut the correct wires??? The retard is only set up for/ was ever active in 2nd and 3rd. 1st 4th 5th 6th were/are never retarded/modified!!

yeah I did lol. Most definetely the correct ones. :lol:

But it really has err...somewhat changed my bike....I'll take her out for a proper blast in a bit to see just how different it is higher up the rev range.My bike has kinda dodgy electrics so perhaps thats whats sparked it off...but really...70-80mph...is so incredbily slow and it wasn't yesterday!!!! Its so painfully slow. Hope it irons itself out. :)

The mod should not affect gears 4-6. It removes the restriction in 2nd and 3rd.

There should be no need to cut the wires - simply remove them from the 4-pin connector and shrink wrap them so they cant short.

Yup, instigator, something's gone pretty wrong there...

Myself, I couldn't tell the difference at all on mine. But that's not to say there isnt' any, or that someone else wouldn't have. Usually I'm quite sensetive to things like this though.

This morning it was like hitting a brick wall at 7k. Wasn't that much fun but once you got 8k it would just fly along. I'll try again tomorrow, roll on top gear. Certainly didn't do it before. Think the electrics are being dodgy although not sure how this would affect things.

On the 33bhp I reckon there's quite a wee bit of difference. Not worth paying for imo but good since it's free.

Yep it was.

Will this work on a K4 SV650S??????

thx

In a word no you need a TRE type mod for K3 onwards a 6.8K resistor works well on my SV which is the same as my Busa.

quickest cheapest mod on my bike, a bit more power in 2 and 3.

Carb adjustment and synch was more helpful.

Anyone who loses power after the snip made a discrepancy somewhere that needs tracking down.

I've heard- and don't quote me, this is very second hand- that the injected models use a different map in different gears- and the TRE bypasses this, so while it gets rid of the retard it can impair performance...

Re: ignition retarder
 

just seen this, i think i might try it

Re: ignition retarder
 

Dont Bother, Its Does Nothing!

Re: ignition retarder
 

what would be the best way to go about finding out if the TRE does impair performance?

looking at this thread it seems that bikes that are restricted notice the difference more than unrestricted.

Re: ignition retarder
 

does'nt it:confused:

Re: ignition retarder
 

Ok, for the carbed bikes it is easier to simply remove the wires from the CDI under the pillion seat. No stuffing around removing riders seat, lifting tank etc. Same deal remove pins from plug and tape or cut, up to you. This mod allows full ignition advance in 2nd & 3rd gear where it was previously retarded slightly.

EFI bikes, you will see TREs and 'smart' TREs advertised. The 650 is still only retarded in 2nd & 3rd gear but with the EFI you also have to consider your cold idle circuit. A smart TRE can be made up yourself or by someone with some electrical nouse. The key is that the signal to let it know it is in neutral must be restored (not as simple a job as just removing 2 wires as per carbed models). This will allow the bike to go through the cold idle circuit and operate normally when starting. If this is not done it is like operating a carbed bike without the choke, the idle needs to be increased to prevent stalling and all manner of other pains.

One of these can be made up, complete with plugs to make it 'plug 'n play' for less than $10AUD. If anyone is asking more than 15-20 pounds for one I would suggest that they are full of the proverbial.